Tech To The Grave command grab uses outside of jump ins

[Nonameformedude]

Grundys df1 command grab has use outside jumps. Certain characters have moves that put them in an ungrabable state because they are off the ground, but as soon as they are off the ground they become fair game for grundys air command grab. A couple examples I can mention off the top of my head are NW's hop anything in staff stance, and DS f3. Remember that his To The Grave is 5 frames so you have a huge window to throw out this grab on reaction. I will do a write up on everything he can grab when I get the chance

 

[Nonameformedude]

I cant edit the post so Ill put the write up here

Flash: Beats sonic pound(even if meter burned), beats f3, beats b3, trades with flying upper, beats running man stance overhead

Nightwing: Beats flip kick(even if meter burned), beats flying grayson, beats f3 in escrima stance

Batman: Beats f3, beats b3

Lobo: Dont have so I couldnt test. If any lobo players would like to help me test and run some sets that'd be nice

Joker: No finds

Harley: Beats f3

Cyborg: Beats techno tackle

Green Arrow: No finds

Superman: Flying ground smash obviously, no good finds

MMH: Beats b3 at a very strange timing, will get into that later

Zod: No finds

Lex: No finds

Catwoman: no "solid" finds, needs more testing

Death Stroke: Beats f3

Raven: No finds

Aquaman: Beats f3(funny side note, jump 1 stuffs un meterburned f3 and b3 with a hilarious kick in the face)

WonderWoman: Trades with instant air amazon smash, beats f3

Zatana: Beats f3, beats arataz evid(the dive kick)

Ares: Beats god smack(meterburned god smack eats up the hit of the grab, something I will go into more later, so his reset must be stopped come other way)

KF: No finds

DoomsDay: Trades with supernova

HawkGirl: Beats f3, beats heavenward stomp obviously. Something else to note in this matchup, if you read wing evade as a wake up and you do a WCC you will end up behind her and able to punish with the 50% of your choice fo free. Dont see many hawk girls wake up with wing evade though

Shazam: Beats the normal overhead b2

Green lantern: Beats f3, which is really great for the GL MU inside sweep range because now we only have to block low

Sinestro: Beats axe of terror, no good finds

Bane: Beats f3 and b3

Batgirl: I dont have so I couldnt test. If any batgirl player would like to help me test and run some sets that would be nice

Now a few things about this ive noticed/want to discuss. In the martian manhunter test it seemed I grabed him right out of his b3 when I hit it at a certain spot. This and another factor Ill bring up in a moment makes me want to believe that this anti air grab isnt so much an anti air grab, but a command grab with a certain range(much like GL's lanterns might). I noticed in and infinite practice sesh today that the grab on hit connects as a mid first for 1% not a throw, then follows up with 10% unblockable damage that is the opponent being thrown to the ground. From what I can gather anything that enters the hitbox for To the Grave will act as if it has taken a mid hit, and if that hit would stop whatever motion is being done without trading with grundy at the same time or hitting him first then it is followed up with the throw to the ground. This leaves much more room to build on this list with any normal strings that might step into grundys air throw hit box. This could also be quite beneficial to the doomsday forum because his air grab seems like it functions similar to grundys. Also To The Grave beats these special moves on wake up as well since the invincible frames dont last long enough.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Good post
Great info

I didn't know it beat a few of the F3's that it does.....

 

[GGA Max]

That's cool man. But you're going to be whiffing air grabs all over the place, most of these attacks are a quick start up and have easier punishes. Still, it is good that people are digging into the game. Perhaps you could make a list of attacks that get beat only by air grab or best by air grab.

 

[Nonameformedude]

That's cool man. But you're going to be whiffing air grabs all over the place, most of these attacks are a quick start up and have easier punishes. Still, it is good that people are digging into the game. Perhaps you could make a list of attacks that get beat only by air grab or best by air grab.

Grundys air grab comes out in almost the same time as a parry, I tested it on reaction and still beat out these things. In fact the way this was found was me reading jump in against a DS sparing partner when he was actually doing f3, then when I saw it worked I would just nullify the cross up set up DS has with f3.I would keep it as a back up that you can immediately switch to if you couldnt do your best punish in time. Like in the GL MU I only have to block low now and can To The Grave the f3 overhead on reaction that is mainly used in GL's mix up

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

That's cool man. But you're going to be whiffing air grabs all over the place, most of these attacks are a quick start up and have easier punishes. Still, it is good that people are digging into the game. Perhaps you could make a list of attacks that get beat only by air grab or best by air grab.

f3's have no punish......

like he said... its a reaction thing... not a guess

 

[legion666]

I cant edit the post so Ill put the write up here

Flash: Beats sonic pound(even if meter burned), beats f3, beats b3, trades with flying upper, beats running man stance overhead

Nightwing: Beats flip kick(even if meter burned), beats flying grayson, beats f3 in escrima stance

Batman: Beats f3, beats b3

Lobo: Dont have so I couldnt test. If any lobo players would like to help me test and run some sets that'd be nice

Joker: No finds

Harley: Beats f3

Cyborg: Beats techno tackle

Green Arrow: No finds

Superman: Flying ground smash obviously, no good finds

MMH: Beats b3 at a very strange timing, will get into that later

Zod: No finds

Lex: No finds

Catwoman: no "solid" finds, needs more testing

Death Stroke: Beats f3

Raven: No finds

Aquaman: Beats f3(funny side note, jump 1 stuffs un meterburned f3 and b3 with a hilarious kick in the face)

WonderWoman: Trades with instant air amazon smash, beats f3

Zatana: Beats f3, beats arataz evid(the dive kick)

Ares: Beats god smack(meterburned god smack eats up the hit of the grab, something I will go into more later, so his reset must be stopped come other way)

KF: No finds

DoomsDay: Trades with supernova

HawkGirl: Beats f3, beats heavenward stomp obviously. Something else to note in this matchup, if you read wing evade as a wake up and you do a WCC you will end up behind her and able to punish with the 50% of your choice fo free. Dont see many hawk girls wake up with wing evade though

Shazam: Beats the normal overhead b2

Green lantern: Beats f3, which is really great for the GL MU inside sweep range because now we only have to block low

Sinestro: Beats axe of terror, no good finds

Bane: Beats f3 and b3

Batgirl: I dont have so I couldnt test. If any batgirl player would like to help me test and run some sets that would be nice

Now a few things about this ive noticed/want to discuss. In the martian manhunter test it seemed I grabed him right out of his b3 when I hit it at a certain spot. This and another factor Ill bring up in a moment makes me want to believe that this anti air grab isnt so much an anti air grab, but a command grab with a certain range(much like GL's lanterns might). I noticed in and infinite practice sesh today that the grab on hit connects as a mid first for 1% not a throw, then follows up with 10% unblockable damage that is the opponent being thrown to the ground. From what I can gather anything that enters the hitbox for To the Grave will act as if it has taken a mid hit, and if that hit would stop whatever motion is being done without trading with grundy at the same time or hitting him first then it is followed up with the throw to the ground. This leaves much more room to build on this list with any normal strings that might step into grundys air throw hit box. This could also be quite beneficial to the doomsday forum because his air grab seems like it functions similar to grundys. Also To The Grave beats these special moves on wake up as well since the invincible frames dont last long enough.

Can't it beat Superman's Jaxpunch?

 

[Nonameformedude]

Can't it beat Superman's Jaxpunch?

This stuff still merits more testing, but from what I attempted I could not beat the punch. Certain things that I only got to trade I think might be beat out at a proper frame, but thats unreliable for consistent use.

 

[DFC]

Now when you say "Tested on Reaction", I hope you mean you played actual people and did this live instead of just on a dummy bot set to do a specific move. Because, and this may be wrong on the game's part. It states that a close or far Sonic pound is 15 frames, and reacting with to the grave in under 5 frames seems awfully risky, where simply blocking or MB4 gets the job done. Maybe a vanilla sonic pound which is 10 frames slower apparently(again, the game has been wrong before, and may be wrong again) is doable...​

​

Good work nonetheless finding something new though. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, and this is a really good find!​

​

 

[LordChozo]

I feel like I've used this against Deathstroke's sword flip before as well, but only when the first hit of it whiffs. I'm almost positive you can reaction counter that move.

 

[Nonameformedude]

Now when you say "Tested on Reaction", I hope you mean you played actual people and did this live instead of just on a dummy bot set to do a specific move. Because, and this may be wrong on the game's part. It states that a close or far Sonic pound is 15 frames, and reacting with to the grave in under 5 frames seems awfully risky, where simply blocking or MB4 gets the job done. Maybe a vanilla sonic pound which is 10 frames slower apparently(again, the game has been wrong before, and may be wrong again) is doable...​

​

Good work nonetheless finding something new though. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, and this is a really good find!​

​

This was found in an infinite practice sesh with a sparring partner so yes it was on reaction against a human but once you know exactly what you can use To The Grave to beat it opens up being able to use this on a read safely. As for sonic pound specifically I feel you can do that test yourself. Just put the computer on wake up sonic pound and wait until you see the start of the animation to put in the bf1.

I feel there is still much that hasnt been explored in this game and tech to be found. My sparring partner found some tech with DS that will change the way he is played in the same sesh. I honestly cant think of how nobody knows about it yet, but I saw nothing on the DS forums so either theres secrets being held for the patch or important tech that has yet to be found. Always keep trying shit out in practice!

I feel like I've used this against Deathstroke's sword flip before as well, but only when the first hit of it whiffs. I'm almost positive you can reaction counter that move.

I highly doubt that that happened unless DS did a sword flip on you waking up with To The Grave and you where invincible while immediately hitting him with the grab. Even then it seems like it would trade. I would test this but I find its better to just respect sword flip and punish it for 50% once you block it

 

[LordChozo]

I highly doubt that that happened unless DS did a sword flip on you waking up with To The Grave and you where invincible while immediately hitting him with the grab. Even then it seems like it would trade. I would test this but I find its better to just respect sword flip and punish it for 50% once you block it

Yeah, I wouldn't do that with him starting in range. I mean in those situations where DS starts far enough away that the first full flip doesn't connect at all. IIRC, when I did it the grab pulled DS out of the rest of the animation. It's possible the timing is tricky (and possible I'm just remembering all of this completely wrong), but I believe it does work in that situation.

EDIT: I just tested this in the lab and it absolutely works. If you do To The Grave after the first full rotation of Deathstroke's Sword Flip, it will connect clean. At longer distances you can also clean connect after the second full flip.

 

[Red Reaper]

Nonameformedude

ABC or order?? Or Grundy don't know ABC's???

 

[Nonameformedude]

Nonameformedude

ABC or order?? Or Grundy don't know ABC's???

Grundy cant remember that far back in education

EDIT: I just tested this in the lab and it absolutely works. If you do To The Grave after the first full rotation of Deathstroke's Sword Flip, it will connect clean. At longer distances you can also clean connect after the second full flip.

You right! It trades if done slightly off time, and beats sword flip if done correctly. Will add to the list, ty

 

[Red Reaper]

Grundy cant remember that far back in education

lol...

You right! It trades if done slightly off time, and beats sword flip if done correctly. Will add to the list, ty

That's BS! I thought I had the answer to him too!

 

[Nonameformedude]

lol...

That's BS! I thought I had the answer to him too!

Now it may be because Im a [POT]MonstA, but I have no idea whats going on

 

[Red Reaper]

Now it may be because Im a [POT]MonstA, but I have no idea whats going on

Sword Flip being able to get AA'd when I'm going for chip... lol.

 

[1truking]

Now when you say "Tested on Reaction", I hope you mean you played actual people and did this live instead of just on a dummy bot set to do a specific move. Because, and this may be wrong on the game's part. It states that a close or far Sonic pound is 15 frames, and reacting with to the grave in under 5 frames seems awfully risky, where simply blocking or MB4 gets the job done. Maybe a vanilla sonic pound which is 10 frames slower apparently(again, the game has been wrong before, and may be wrong again) is doable...

Good work nonetheless finding something new though. Maybe I'm looking at it the wrong way, and this is a really good find!

I've done most of these on reaction. No this isn't new I'm not sure why people seem surprised by this. I've even posted this in various forums as counters that stuff grundy wakeup options.

 

[BaronVonRupert]

I've done most of these on reaction. No this isn't new I'm not sure why people seem surprised by this. I've even posted this in various forums as counters that stuff grundy wakeup options.

it isn't new but this is the first time someone has sat down and gone through the cast to test what it can beat to my knowledge. even if it isn't the first time, it's the first time it's been written and shared which i appreciate since it makes it easier on me lol.

 

[DFC]

I've done most of these on reaction. No this isn't new I'm not sure why people seem surprised by this. I've even posted this in various forums as counters that stuff grundy wakeup options.

I haven't seen it, so it's new to me! Thanks to you and Nonameformedude for confirming this stuff with me.

 

[SonicFox5000]

Yeah because I would totally do a jump in with harley and hit f3 after.
loljk, good find, but a lot are impractical

 

[Gruff757]

I feel like I've used this against Deathstroke's sword flip before as well, but only when the first hit of it whiffs. I'm almost positive you can reaction counter that move.

yeah its after the first whiff, but unless the DS is an idiot, it wont happen too often

 

[Mikemetroid]

I like to do to the grave against Lanterns with their ambiguous cross up f3s

 

[Nonameformedude]

I've done most of these on reaction. No this isn't new I'm not sure why people seem surprised by this. I've even posted this in various forums as counters that stuff grundy wakeup options.

"Ive even posted this in various forums" lol and @BaronVonRupert shame on you for encouraging this high profile liar

Yeah because I would totally do a jump in with harley and hit f3 after.
loljk, good find, but a lot are impractical

You would totally do a raw f3 as wake up pressure with harley, and I would totally grab that right out of the air on wake up for a free set up. Thats hella practical to me lol

I like to do to the grave against Lanterns with their ambiguous cross up f3s

This makes bane reeeeeally dominate the GL MU inside sweep range now. He doesnt have access to raw f3, bane can break the mb f3, all his strings are easily armored through, his wake up options are all ass. If grundy doesnt allow himself to be easily zoned then he has the same advantage. Its a wrap

 

[LordChozo]

yeah its after the first whiff, but unless the DS is an idiot, it wont happen too often

Yeah, I don't expect it to be used frequently, but it's good to know it's there. I can think of a few situations where it'd be useful, but I agree with you that it won't be a commonly used punish like the f3s will be.

Btw, Nonameformedude, I used this against a meaty Batman f3 last night and put him in the corner with it, and it felt hella good. Thanks for putting this together!