Throw tech advantage

[asmith]

Hope I'm not making a duplicated thread.

So when you tech a throw, you are at neutral advantage. Why is that? Considering that you ate 2% throw initial damage and risked a 50/50 KB, why shouldn't the player who tech the throw be at advantage?

 

[ismael4790]

I always thought teching a throw should give a small reward, like being slightly plus. And in this game it would even make more sense, since there is a risk for trying to tech a throw in those cases where the opponent's throw has a krushing blow for teching in the wrong direction.

 

[SaltShaker]

I've been arguing this a lot lately. I agree. If throw were going to be designed this strong, there should be some type of reward for techs. 50/50 10F throws that do 14% damage while eating through normals and do 32% KB damage? At least hit 2% damage on the tech back at them, or be left at +5.

 

[ColdSpine]

Guessing wrong on throw and eating 30% KB needs to go ASAP

 

[thlityoursloat]

I've been arguing this a lot lately. I agree. If throw were going to be designed this strong, there should be some type of reward for techs. 50/50 10F throws that do 14% damage while eating through normals and do 32% KB damage? At least hit 2% damage on the tech back at them, or be left at +5.

Yes fucking please. My biggest problem with the grabs is how win win they are if you tech them, especially against the broke tiers with their crazy button and silly jumpins.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Throw should never grant anyone advantage after a tech. The reward was not getting thrown. Being neutral after a tech is honestly the most honest thing to do. Imagine someone mash teching your throw and getting advantage you’d be pissed lol.

Throw KB are a big part of certain character’s offense. Example, Noob, Liu Kang etc.

Throw definitely should not do damage until the throw is successful.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I've been arguing this a lot lately. I agree. If throw were going to be designed this strong, there should be some type of reward for techs. 50/50 10F throws that do 14% damage while eating through normals and do 32% KB damage? At least hit 2% damage on the tech back at them, or be left at +5.

I don’t think throw becoming a mid in certain situations was intentional, & they should look into it.

The reward is not being thrown. What do you want a punish?

 

[MashiroTamigi]

Nah, mb they should just change the window for teching a little bit, but if you read a throw you can already punish with full combos or d2

 

[SaltShaker]

I don’t think throw becoming a mid in certain situations was intentional, & they should look into it.

The reward is not being thrown. What do you want a punish?

Equality. It's the only game I can think of where a correct tech on a throw does damage to the defender (the only game?), so having that go both ways would be fair. Another suggestion would be to remove the damage for getting your throw read. Another suggestion would be minimal +frames for the person performing the tech, since going for throw is such a favorable option in this game. I play Cetrion, very few characters benefit from the throw game meta as mine does, and if they fix her KB throw it'll probably be broke. Yet I still realize how absurd it currently is. I 'll give you one point for acknowledging eating through normals the way it does adds to the claim however.

Typical Scorpion player to misrepresent someone's argument.

 

[asmith]

Imagine someone mash teching your throw and getting advantage you’d be pissed lol.

If you realize someone is mashing for teching throws, you can easily punish him next time. They usually let go of block after the first hit of a string.

Reading throws is a much harder task and it has its own full punish reward. I would settle with only +3 frames advantage for the defender though. Currently teching throws just does nothing specially in online where people gain bad habits of mashing. Lots of online players just mash after their throw attempt is teched.

 

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

Guessing wrong on throw and eating 30% KB needs to go ASAP

^^^^ this forever.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Equality. It's the only game I can think of where a correct tech on a throw does damage to the defender (the only game?), so having that go both ways would be fair. Another suggestion would be to remove the damage for getting your throw read. Another suggestion would be minimal +frames for the person performing the tech, since going for throw is such a favorable option in this game. I play Cetrion, very few characters benefit from the throw game meta as mine does, and if they fix her KB throw it'll probably be broke. Yet I still realize how absurd it currently is. I 'll give you one point for acknowledging eating through normals the way it does adds to the claim however.

Typical Scorpion player to misrepresent someone's argument.

I agree with it not doing damage before the throw is successful.

How about you learn how to play the game instead of suggestion changes?

Skip the insults. If you followed me you’d know I’ve been playing Jade for weeks now & switched to LK 2 days ago.

 

[SaltShaker]

I agree with it not doing damage before the throw is successful.

How about you learn how to play the game instead of suggestion changes?

Skip the insults. If you followed me you’d know I’ve been playing Jade for weeks now & switched to LK 2 days ago.

I didn't make the thread. I'm responding in one that I agree with. If I can't point out what I would suggest on a discussion forum, in a thread like this directly on topic, where would I do it?

I've already "learned" to deal with throws, and stated my character benefits more than most in the current system. Without the current meta, it'd be a big hit for my character, but I still am objective enough to know it's very in my favor most MUs. Though I find it weird to have to reiterate this to someone who said "skip the insults". Definitely must be a Scorpion player thing.

 

[OutworldKeith]

If you realize someone is mashing for teching throws, you can easily punish him next time. They usually let go of block after the first hit of a string.

Reading throws is a much harder task and it has its own full punish reward. I would settle with only +3 frames advantage for the defender though. Currently teching throws just does nothing specially in online where people gain bad habits of mashing. Lots of online players just mash after their throw attempt is teched.

Idc about people mashing. I play LK and I welcome all mashers.

I don’t get hit by many throw KBs because I don’t attempt to tech all the time. I’d rather go for the hard read and get full combo.

So you want +3 on a successful tech? You know they’ll still be able to do whatever at that distance right? It would be the same as being neutral.

 

[Vengeance135]

Just remove KB throws and we good.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I didn't make the thread. I'm responding in one that I agree with. If I can't point out what I would suggest on a discussion forum, in a thread like this directly on topic, where would I do it?

I've already "learned" to deal with throws, and stated my character benefits more than most in the current system. Without the current meta, it'd be a big hit for my character, but I still am objective enough to know it's very in my favor most MUs. Though I find it weird to have to reiterate this to someone who said "skip the insults". Definitely must be a Scorpion player thing.

I already said the damage before a successful throw is bad. NRS definitely needs to correct the throw hitboxes time now.

In the current meta what characters don’t benefit from the throw system? I don’t understand why players would want an advantage from throw tech. When you can make a read and get a full combo.

 

[OutworldKeith]

One more thing! *Jackie’s Uncle voice

It’s easier to avoid throw KB against characters with one throw KB.

You just have to pay attention to the failed escape sign.

 

[SaltShaker]

I already said the damage before a successful throw is bad. NRS definitely needs to correct the throw hitboxes time now.

In the current meta what characters don’t benefit from the throw system? I don’t understand why players would want an advantage from throw tech. When you can make a read and get a full combo.

Well, that's suggestion enough right there lol. If there was no damage on tech (punishing you for making the right decision), and hitbox fixes that would be a solid change.

I think there's a clear advantage for some than others. Everyone gets advantage in general, but when I use Kabal it's night and day compared to Cetrion, and she actually has no KB. Kabal's back throw has the KB, and has solid oki, his forward throw is meh. All the rules of pressure and throw mixups apply, especially in his mean streak variation that I use. Nerf the grab some and it's still business as usual for Kabal.

Now Cetrion, the grab is S-tier. Mainly because her pressure revolves around her staggers, the wall or amp, and conditioning. Her grab range is one of the longest too. She doesn't need KB on grab because it would make it broke imo. Maximizing her stagger game you'll often hit non-amp wall. When you do, you're at +15, and frame trap into F2-string. You also frame trap into microdash grab. A true 50/50. In the corner if you guess wrong it's MKX until you die, unless you were able to correctly WU after a grab. After a couple of grabs they start trying to duck, but you eat them with F2-string-wall loops a couple of times into F2-full combo, or F2 on block no string into grab. It's incredibly dirty. Both grabs push you 3/4 away from her, her ideal range. You follow up with micro dash fire beam to catch anything other than block, or water geyser which on hit lands you full combo. Once they learn they can't move after a grab, you can freely toss boulders, space full screen and Kounter hit with a geyser if they push buttons, walk back to full screen unchallenged, jump and react to any movement they do, etc. There's only about 2 MUs that her grab isn't overly strong in.

So trust me, I have no self-interest involved in feeling like the grab might be too strong in this game lol.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Well, that's suggestion enough right there lol. If there was no damage on tech (punishing you for making the right decision), and hitbox fixes that would be a solid change.

I think there's a clear advantage for some than others. Everyone gets advantage in general, but when I use Kabal it's night and day compared to Cetrion, and she actually has no KB. Kabal's back throw has the KB, and has solid oki, his forward throw is meh. All the rules of pressure and throw mixups apply, especially in his mean streak variation that I use. Nerf the grab some and it's still business as usual for Kabal.

Now Cetrion, the grab is S-tier. Mainly because her pressure revolves around her staggers, the wall or amp, and conditioning. Her grab range is one of the longest too. She doesn't need KB on grab because it would make it broke imo. Maximizing her stagger game you'll often hit non-amp wall. When you do, you're at +15, and frame trap into F2-string. You also frame trap into microdash grab. A true 50/50. In the corner if you guess wrong it's MKX until you die, unless you were able to correctly WU after a grab. After a couple of grabs they start trying to duck, but you eat them with F2-string-wall loops a couple of times into F2-full combo, or F2 on block no string into grab. It's incredibly dirty. Both grabs push you 3/4 away from her, her ideal range. You follow up with micro dash fire beam to catch anything other than block, or water geyser which on hit lands you full combo. Once they learn they can't move after a grab, you can freely toss boulders, space full screen and Kounter hit with a geyser if they push buttons, walk back to full screen unchallenged, jump and react to any movement they do, etc. There's only about 2 MUs that her grab isn't overly strong in.

So trust me, I have no self-interest involved in feeling like the grab might be too strong in this game lol.

All good points, but we’re discussing the throw tech advantage. Only character I can think of with a clear advantage after a tech is Jacqui.

 

[stokedAF]

I labbed shao Kahn’s reversal throw krushing blow on scorpions teleport for like an hour yesterday. I’m fucking ready! As far as I know you can’t tech it.

 

[Landonio]

Throw should never grant anyone advantage after a tech. The reward was not getting thrown. Being neutral after a tech is honestly the most honest thing to do. Imagine someone mash teching your throw and getting advantage you’d be pissed lol.

Throw KB are a big part of certain character’s offense. Example, Noob, Liu Kang etc.

Throw definitely should not do damage until the throw is successful.

What you're arguing would make perfect sense if:
-throws techs did no damage
-throws weren't a complete 50/50
-certain characters weren't put in more advantageous positions than others after the tech (taking into account the moves they have available and the relative spacing it puts you in)

All of these are a thing though, so I honestly wouldn't mind if you were rewarded with a frame or two of advantage after a tech.

 

[BlondeWolf411]

Nah they’re good my Shang forward throw only does 10%

Fully balanced mechanics by the NRS team

 

[SaltShaker]

All good points, but we’re discussing the throw tech advantage. Only character I can think of with a clear advantage after a tech is Jacqui.

Lol Jacqui is probably the only character I try not to throw too often. That KB tech is the thing that salt is made of.

 

[OutworldKeith]

What you're arguing would make perfect sense if:
-throws techs did no damage
-throws weren't a complete 50/50
-certain characters weren't put in more advantageous positions than others after the tech (taking into account the moves they have available and the relative spacing it puts you in)

All of these are a thing though, so I honestly wouldn't mind if you were rewarded with a frame or two of advantage after a tech.

After a tech a jump back/ neutral jump are your best option other than blocking. Jacqui is the only character with an advantage after a tech because of her Amp throw tech.

Let me explain something for the umpteenth time. Throws will always be 50/50 as long as their isnt 1 tech button. MK has 2 different inputs to tech the corresponding throw, which makes it a 50/50. If there were one way to tech both throws then it wouldn’t be. Get over it.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Lol Jacqui is probably the only character I try not to throw too often. That KB tech is the thing that salt is made of.

OP should play Jacqui if he wants advantage after a throw tech lol.