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BDMao88

BDMao88

Filthy Casual
Any tips on fighting Kung Lao, Reptile, and Kitana? I need dire help on those MUs. I might try to create some online videos to show you what I mean. These 3 just completely wreck me and I just don't understand how the match up is even except with KL. I feel like I shouldn't ever throw a naked smoke bomb against reptile.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
BDMao88 said:
Any tips on fighting Kung Lao, Reptile, and Kitana? I need dire help on those MUs. I might try to create some online videos to show you what I mean. These 3 just completely wreck me and I just don't understand how the match up is even except with KL. I feel like I shouldn't ever throw a naked smoke bomb against reptile.
Click to expand...
Fighting Kung Lao is a joke. The character totally shuts down Smoke's game and it is not even worth fighting through the match up in my honest opinion.

For Reptile you have to get to the point where you can full punish the dash every time (talking offline obviously since online is a mixed bag). If you can make Reptile hesitant to dash it will open up a lot of Smoke's normal options. Since you can anti-zone with shake, good Reptiles won't even waste their time throwing out projectiles so it basically turns into a spacing game where Reptile tries to get in with whiffed dashes while you are trying to bait them at a range where you can block and punish. Personally I like to try and stay in Reptile's face and bait dashes. You can also try to anticipate dashes if you get a good read and NJP into 3d12 4 bomb into your ender of choice. I just like to finish with 21 drift toward because it puts me right back on top of them.

I like to play keep away against Kitana and play the spacing game where you keep out of F21 range. Keep her honest with smoke bombs and if she is avoiding them with air fans then just instant air teleport and drift away. On knockdowns since Kitana's wake-up game sucks, force her into making a bad read and punish her with combos. If she tries to get in with a square wave you will have time to d1 or d3 into your poke pressure if she lands next to you... or d1, d1 bomb them if the move is not just off the ground. If she is burring you with block strings just look for an opening (check frame data) where you can ex parry out and reset the situation (or d1 and run away if you don't want to use the meter).
 
FrothyOmen

FrothyOmen

P!
Counterpoking Kitana is pretty important. Some people would say it's impossible, but I don't think it's *awful*. Look for that d1~cutter bullshit, block her pokes and counter with your own. d3~smoke away is a favorite of mine to interrupt d1~cutter and escape her pressure. Theorycrafting here, but I'm willing to bed that once kitana is used to you smoking away, she's gonna start doing dash f21 (or whatever that advancing stab is), meaning she lets off block early, meaning d1 bomb trolling. I struggle a lot with this match but I think I (and a lot of others) don't approach it methodically enough or even correctly at all for that matter. I don't know how to blow up her bullshit.

Note: everything i have said here is based on online play
i have no idea if this works offline i havent played offline since the last coco
 
GGA Wafflez

GGA Wafflez

the kid
i have had quite a lot of kitanna MU exp, and there are 4 things you MUST do concerning this MU...
1. counter poke... i have said it once and will say it again, kitanna gets 50% of all her damage (if not more) off of characters (or people) who dont understand how to counter poke her... some characters are at a loss because they dont have the sufficient tools (d3, armor) to get out of her setups, but smoke does (d3). 7 frames, hella range, lowers hitbox... this blows up her "counter" counter poke game, leaving players confused as what to do next when they cant play her game (only kitanna in the world that knows what to do is 16 bit)

2. run away... w/ or w/o the life lead, this is a good idea... why? because she is never safe when you have meter for reset, and can get in quite safely at any time. smoke bombs build meter / force her to jump, if she is jumping she might be throwing an air fan, shake, is she stands there you get the best meter gain almost in the game. smoke away is a hell of a special move against kitanna. on wake up, dash up, she whiffs a move b23 that shit (making good reads or just random... this move has good recovery even on whiff, so you have to almost expect it...) on wakeup if she tries it she will whiff MOST of the time... i have gotten hit more than once, but it's worth the risk because the chances are low and you win the damage game.

3. anti airing... kitanna gets nasty damage off of her jump kick air fan, and even though s2 works most of the time, if you miss time it you will get blown up... i have been using b2 d1 sb as an anti air, and it actually has been working out great... the thing about smoke's s2... is that it gets blown up by deep jump kicks... dizzy is the only one i have ever fought so far (and me) who can blow it up consistently (unless you dash forward and then s2...) b2 can leave you at a distance where you are safe from the jump kick, but still can anti air on reaction. another way you can anti air her is AFTER you block a jump kick... like i said, expect a fan after a jump kick... you block the jump kick, stop blocking, crouch, she will throw a fan and it will whiff, then you d1 d1 sb... full combo punish. off of square wave, you can smoke port away (square wave blows up smoke away on wake up, but the damage isn't enough to worry about) and if it whiffs, d1 d1 sb.

4. d4......................................... blows her the fuck up. pressure her with it, on her wakeup, mid screen, corner, wherever you are... d4 is great in this MU

concerning her d1 cutter? i have done it like twice, that's just cause i instantly d3 after a d1, but if you expect a d1 cutter, block the d1 then let go of block... keep crouching so you dont get hit by the cutter, stand up and 21 sb... kitannas use it all the time cause no1 blows it up, but it's possible.

i dont wanna say you get free cross ups on her... but you get free cross ups on her... she can really only stop it by reading it and doing a junp back kick air fan into full combo, but feel free to mix up jump ins on her wake up, after d4 (if the player knows to respect your advantage)
 
G4S KT

G4S KT

Gaming4Satan Founder
FrothyOmen said:
Counterpoking Kitana is pretty important. Some people would say it's impossible, but I don't think it's *awful*. Look for that d1~cutter bullshit, block her pokes and counter with your own. d3~smoke away is a favorite of mine to interrupt d1~cutter and escape her pressure. Theorycrafting here, but I'm willing to bed that once kitana is used to you smoking away, she's gonna start doing dash f21 (or whatever that advancing stab is), meaning she lets off block early, meaning d1 bomb trolling. I struggle a lot with this match but I think I (and a lot of others) don't approach it methodically enough.

Note: everything i have said here is based on online play
i have no idea if this works offline i havent played offline since the last coco
Click to expand...
Methodical is the name of the game against her. You gotta be super patient.

Kitana is one of the MU's I know best, having bodied and been bodied by many top ones. You can blow up d1 xx cutter BAD if you scout it; just let go of block after the d1, let cutter whiff on naked crouch, then stand up and 21 xx smokebomb punish.

Her normals outclass yours from footsie (sweep) range and pressing buttons here will get you caught. Instead, try to bait them into whiffing something by whiffing your own d3's and backing up and smoking away.

Don't leave the ground from half screen or farther; trying to punish an air fan with your air teleport isn't worth the risk/reward. Shaking them constantly isn't the best idea either because then you open up an instant air fan/instant air ass guessing game which will catch you if you shake too early.

You also want to try and make smart jumps over her ground normals. As long as they aren't going to spend meter on EX fan lift, hitting you out of the air isn't so easy.


As far as Kung Lao is concerned, after learning him I really think that he's considerably less scary than Kabal or Cage simply because you can naked crouch all of his pressure strings.

The trick is to NOT get scared into blocking because then he can abuse your hitbox. Instead, harass him with d3's and and d4's and throw him away until he starts doing stuff you can punish. Don't bother trying to pressure him.

He is beastly, but incredibly unsafe.

Throwing smoke bombs at him anywhere on screen besides poke n' smoke is pointless and will get you blown up. Running away is also pointless. let him get close then throw him away. Try and frustrate the other player.

EDIT: looks like wafflez beat me to the punch
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
KT Smith said:
As far as Kung Lao is concerned, after learning him I really think that he's considerably less scary than Kabal or Cage simply because you can naked crouch all of his pressure strings.
The trick is to NOT get scared into blocking because then he can abuse your hitbox. Instead, harass him with d3's and and d4's and throw him away until he starts doing stuff you can punish. Don't bother trying to pressure him.
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Lol, dude you are crazy. How do you not get caught blocking when you have to block moves like spin and dive kick to punish them. If you are lax on blocking and waiting to poke and throw, what is to stop the KL player from cancelling their strings into spin and rocking your world. I hate this character almost as much as m2dave hates Smoke. Kabal is definitely scary for Smoke as well, but nothing is on this bastard's level...

Cage is a bad MU for Smoke, but is is no where near the level of KL and Kabal in my opinion. You really have to save your meter to ex-parry out of his pressure when he gets in and be on-point and focused at keeping him out. Much less mentally draining knowing Cage actually has to work to get in while Kung Lao can just do whatever the F he wants.
 
FrothyOmen

FrothyOmen

P!
RiBBz22 said:
If you are lax on blocking and waiting to poke and throw, what is to stop the KL player from cancelling their strings into spin and rocking your world..
Click to expand...

Well, the fact that he has to actually hit you in order to cancel that hit into spin for starters...
 
Chongo

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
BDMao88 said:
Any tips on fighting Kung Lao, Reptile, and Kitana? I need dire help on those MUs. I might try to create some online videos to show you what I mean. These 3 just completely wreck me and I just don't understand how the match up is even except with KL. I feel like I shouldn't ever throw a naked smoke bomb against reptile.
Click to expand...
I gave you some advice with Reptile today, but I forgot one thing. Reptile can bait the shake by shooting a sfb, then elbow dashing twice. You'll eat 18% + pressure on wake up. You can punish fb's with Teleport ( I think, Wafflez FrothyOmen help me out here.) If you can, Reptile can probably bait that by just blocking, so its a guessing game.
 
GGA Wafflez

GGA Wafflez

the kid
Chongo Is Free said:
I gave you some advice with Reptile today, but I forgot one thing. Reptile can bait the shake by shooting a sfb, then elbow dashing twice. You'll eat 18% + pressure on wake up. You can punish fb's with Teleport ( I think, Wafflez FrothyOmen help me out here.) If you can, Reptile can probably bait that by just blocking, so its a guessing game.
Click to expand...
i wouldn't try to punish it on reaction... and reptiles usually will just be too afraid to throw out forceballs just cause of shake... full screen i would either try to jump over it (which wont happen often, cause they will try to njp you or maybe dash and catch w/ another forceball,), or wait and just react to what they do... which is either dash or jump... it's really a tricky situation, cause it sets him up for a lot of things
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Wafflez said:
i wouldn't try to punish it on reaction... and reptiles usually will just be too afraid to throw out forceballs just cause of shake... full screen i would either try to jump over it (which wont happen often, cause they will try to njp you or maybe dash and catch w/ another forceball,), or wait and just react to what they do... which is either dash or jump... it's really a tricky situation, cause it sets him up for a lot of things
Click to expand...
Ya, this is Reptile's only option to get a projectile safely on screen at a distance and control some of the pacing. That is why Smoke needs to be closer to Reptile in this match.
 
smokey

smokey

EX Ovi should launch
smoke bomb forceball on reaction, drift backwards when it gets close (smoke drifts faster than slow forceballs) buffer shake to the end of it, or just shake it on the frame, its a 1frame move theres no way you cant block a dash and still shake....
 
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