Question - Mournful TheoryCraft, Mournful's Role

[Juxtapose]

Hey all,

So generally speaking, Variations were added to provide a character with a few different options, potentially allowing them to be viable against all kinds of match ups.

This is theorycrafting, mind you, since not everything works out as designed, but as an example: Piercing Mileena is for zoning/counter zoning, Ravenous is for pressure and damage, Ethereal is for defence and dealing with high pressure opponents.

In theory, that's what Mileena's variations are for.

So for Kitana, how does she boil down. Royal Storm is for zoning and anti-zoning, Assassin is for pressure and damage, so where does Mournful fit in?

Asking as I'm not really familiar with that Variation of the character.

Thanks.

 

[God Confirm]

You gotta learn to wave dash

 

[gam224]

Mournful comes into play when you fight characters like Liu who can duck your fans with a low projectile. As it stands it is not as good as RS but it is better than Assassin. Asssassin doesn't really have a place in the game right now.

 

[REO]

Mournful gives Kitana improved ground footsies with mid glaives and Shadow Kick. it also gives her the ability to go to for useful 50/50s when you can condition and read your opponent's block patterns. Her wake-ups are also improved in this variation with the use of very difficult to punish armor attacks such as EX Shadow Kick or EX Staff Grab.


Footsie Enhancements:

D+1~Shadhow Kick - Extremely good poking tool that maker her D+1 almost completely 100% safe on block, builds good meter, and does good chip. It also JAIL on block and hit.

F+2,2,U+4~Air Glaive - Very good when you need to use F+2 normal to check a player. You can end the full string in air glaive and it builds good meter and it also jails on certain characters making it 100% safe.

U+2~Air Glaive - Under utilized Kitana normal that I rarely ever see any Kitana players use. In Mournful this can be cancelled into Air Glaive to make it JAIL and completely 100% safe on block. Perfect conditioning tool to set up float mix-ups afterwards.

B+3~Glaive - This jails in this version making it a 100% safe LOW profiling Low attack that is great in footsies when you know how and where to apply it.


Mournful also gives her 50/50s with:

Jump in punch -> EX Air Glaive OR Jump in punch -> B+3 or B+4

Float -> EX Air Glaive OR Float -> Land and immediately B+3 / Land and immediately B+4

These are legit and work on good players She also gains pressure in this variation with EX ground Glaives but that's an obvious one and very common knowledge.

 

[KingKhrystopher]

Glaives come out too slow imo.

 

[Laos_boy]

The concept that assassin is from pressure and up close is very flawed. I

imo Mournful is the Pressure, zoning, and footsies variant. Its really balanced it just doesnt control the air like RS which in this game where everyone wants to jump like crazy. RS will always be the prefered. But in traditional fighting game rules mournful is hella well rounded.

Mix ups, footsies, good block strings and pressure, zoning and space control

But to answer your question if i had to chose one it fits the footsies and safety roll.

 

[Juxtapose]

You gotta learn to wave dash

That was very cool to watch, but wasn't what I was asking about .

 

[Juxtapose]

Mournful gives Kitana improved ground footsies with mid glaives and Shadow Kick. it also gives her the ability to go to for useful 50/50s when you can condition and read your opponent's block patterns. Her wake-ups are also improved in this variation with the use of very difficult to punish armor attacks such as EX Shadow Kick or EX Staff Grab.


Footsie Enhancements:

D+1~Shadhow Kick - Extremely good poking tool that maker her D+1 almost completely 100% safe on block, builds good meter, and does good chip. It also JAIL on block and hit.

F+2,2,U+4~Air Glaive - Very good when you need to use F+2 normal to check a player. You can end the full string in air glaive and it builds good meter and it also jails on certain characters making it 100% safe.

U+2~Air Glaive - Under utilized Kitana normal that I rarely ever see any Kitana players use. In Mournful this can be cancelled into Air Glaive to make it JAIL and completely 100% safe on block. Perfect conditioning tool to set up float mix-ups afterwards.

B+3~Glaive - This jails in this version making it a 100% safe LOW profiling Low attack that is great in footsies when you know how and where to apply it.


Mournful also gives her 50/50s with:

Jump in punch -> EX Air Glaive OR Jump in punch -> B+3 or B+4

Float -> EX Air Glaive OR Float -> Land and immediately B+3 / Land and immediately B+4

These are legit and work on good players She also gains pressure in this variation with EX ground Glaives but that's an obvious one and very common knowledge.

Thanks for the detail. I'm thinking of toying with the Variation soon, and the above will help.

 

[Juxtapose]

The concept that assassin is from pressure and up close is very flawed. I

imo Mournful is the Pressure, zoning, and footsies variant. Its really balanced it just doesnt control the air like RS which in this game where everyone wants to jump like crazy. RS will always be the prefered. But in traditional fighting game rules mournful is hella well rounded.

Mix ups, footsies, good block strings and pressure, zoning and space control

But to answer your question if i had to chose one it fits the footsies and safety roll.

Interesting, so then what "role" would you place Assassin as?

 

[GQJ]

gives Kitana improved ground footsies with mid glaives and Shadow Kick

Are these used in conjunction to keep the opponent from attacking with mids if they get closer. Still trying to understand the fine differences between zoning and footies, bc I thought mid glaives kept ppl out bc you could not duck.

 

[SM StarGazer]

Mournful gives Kitana improved ground footsies with mid glaives and Shadow Kick. it also gives her the ability to go to for useful 50/50s when you can condition and read your opponent's block patterns. Her wake-ups are also improved in this variation with the use of very difficult to punish armor attacks such as EX Shadow Kick or EX Staff Grab.


Footsie Enhancements:

D+1~Shadhow Kick - Extremely good poking tool that maker her D+1 almost completely 100% safe on block, builds good meter, and does good chip. It also JAIL on block and hit.

F+2,2,U+4~Air Glaive - Very good when you need to use F+2 normal to check a player. You can end the full string in air glaive and it builds good meter and it also jails on certain characters making it 100% safe.

U+2~Air Glaive - Under utilized Kitana normal that I rarely ever see any Kitana players use. In Mournful this can be cancelled into Air Glaive to make it JAIL and completely 100% safe on block. Perfect conditioning tool to set up float mix-ups afterwards.

B+3~Glaive - This jails in this version making it a 100% safe LOW profiling Low attack that is great in footsies when you know how and where to apply it.


Mournful also gives her 50/50s with:

Jump in punch -> EX Air Glaive OR Jump in punch -> B+3 or B+4

Float -> EX Air Glaive OR Float -> Land and immediately B+3 / Land and immediately B+4

These are legit and work on good players She also gains pressure in this variation with EX ground Glaives but that's an obvious one and very common knowledge.

As Lord Reo stated. Read my guide if you feel it. It coves literally all of these points.Might I also add that Kitana's lift is also much different then Royal Storm's. She may not have fans to AA but it is also virtually impossible to jump-in on Mournful.

All in all you play lame, honest, and punish your opponents. You play your pace, which for me means slow and steady, yet I'm an ass so I throw stuff at you till you rage or are forced to rush in. Force mistakes, which is easy with Kitana cause eveyone is impatient, Watch you spacing, Against alot of the cast your best bet is to force them full screen. Then rain upon them a hail-storm of projectiles. Then lift the full screen run jump-ins.




Good Times...

 

[Olcadan13]

mournful is more about pressure i would say, with shadow kick making you somewhat safe along with overhead glaives and stuff

i can't think about what to categorize assassin as, maybe setups with sharpen? assassin was the only kitana i played until i switched to mournful a few weeks ago and it is still difficult to think of a reason to use it other than the mask

 

[Mr.EditUndo]

I assumed Mournful is just for ppl that used jade and wanted her in mxk.

I never really like really used jade in mk9 so I actually dont know if mournful holds up a a spiritual successor or not. But if someone did let me know

 

[Laos_boy]

Interesting, so then what "role" would you place Assassin as?

I would say assassin is more of a punished and defensive type charcer

 

[SM StarGazer]

I assumed Mournful is just for ppl that used jade and wanted her in mxk.

I never really like really used jade in mk9 so I actually dont know if mournful holds up a a spiritual successor or not. But if someone did let me know

As much as I adorn Jade. Mournful is her own thing. She's Kitana with Jade's tools mixed with her own. Yes Mournful is for Pressure. It comes at a price though. Play safe and lame till you have resources. Then go in for the kill. Normally I play Mournful in a get first hit first combo, lame lame lame, bait a bar/force a break...kill.

 

[Mr.EditUndo]

As much as I adorn Jade. Mournful is her own thing. She's Kitana with Jade's tools mixed with her own. Yes Mournful is for Pressure. It comes at a price though. Play safe and lame till you have resources. Then go in for the kill. Normally I play Mournful in a get first hit first combo, lame lame lame, bait a bar/force a break...kill.

Ah I see. I played jade in umk3 and the projectile invisibility was awesome it. Im surprised they didn't carry over that move in this game. what tier was jade in mk9?

 

[Juxtapose]

As Lord Reo stated. Read my guide if you feel it. It coves literally all of these points.Might I also add that Kitana's lift is also much different then Royal Storm's. She may not have fans to AA but it is also virtually impossible to jump-in on Mournful.

All in all you play lame, honest, and punish your opponents. You play your pace, which for me means slow and steady, yet I'm an ass so I throw stuff at you till you rage or are forced to rush in. Force mistakes, which is easy with Kitana cause eveyone is impatient, Watch you spacing, Against alot of the cast your best bet is to force them full screen. Then rain upon them a hail-storm of projectiles. Then lift the full screen run jump-ins.




Good Times...

I shall take a look at your guide in the near future!

 

[Juxtapose]

I would say assassin is more of a punished and defensive type charcer

Interesting, as I always figured with the damage potential of Sharpen, the in-your face counter of Parry, and the speed of Assassin Rush that Assassin was supposed to be her offensive role (remember I am talking in theory, and as we know theory and design don't always pan out).

 

[Juxtapose]

Ah I see. I played jade in umk3 and the projectile invisibility was awesome it. Im surprised they didn't carry over that move in this game. what tier was jade in mk9?

Jade was generally low tier. She had relatively low damage for that game, and had to work hard for that. She was a bit more defence with her Shadow Flashes and stuff.

Still, I loved watching her being played. @NeoRussell was my favourite Jade player to watch.

 

[xKhaoTik]

There is no pressure in assasin at all. That variation is flawed. Whatever "pressure" she has in that variation can be done in RS, but better.

Mournful is her pressure variation. REO pretty much nailed everything.

 

[chrisisnice]

Assassin has no real place. It was meant to be rushdown originally but it is definitely not. Assassin needs a couple of decent variation specific strings like RS to make it feel and play different.

If anything, it is bait / punish - but the others do it all better. It is probably the top variation for the outfit though

Hopefully NRS will work on Assassin as it is an awesome concept.

 

[Juxtapose]

Hey all,

So last night I finally started toying with Mournful. Spent about 20 minutes toying with her Metreless kombos in Practice, and also gave @SM StarGazer's guide a read (which was great, by the way).

Then I did two best of five sets against the Hard AI. The first of which is here:

Note I did a lot of D,B,2 for Staff Grab out of memory habit from Mortal Kombat (2011). Generally though, I started getting a very basic feel for her spacing and a glimpse of what her tools can do.

I then did a second set and felt more comfortable with the basics I'd picked up with the variation, here:

I can indeed see the potential for EX Glaive Throw, and I love her different wake-up options.

I still have much to learn and toy with, obviously, but not bad for an hour's worth of tinkering.