THE OFFICIAL BOMB TRAP CHALLENGE!

[UsedForGlue]

Hi.

This is an official challenge to all everyone, as i am sick of trying to prove myself right, instead you have your chance to prove me wrong. *Make a YouTube upload of a cyber sub bomb trap that is 100% inescapable. *

Rules:

No up 4 into bomb reset, as mine and check4900's up4 bomb trap shows how ridiculous this option is and with it, it remains the only reason CSZ shouldn't have the bombs freezing as an option.

The opponent has to have no way out what so eve, if the opponent has even one option, it will null and void.

It also cannot be situational, for example "the opponent has to be jump punched in and air to air" or "if the opponent rolls he will get hit be the bomb". *It has to be an actual "trap".

You obviously cannot throw bombs after bombs, or ice ball after bombs, so your options for infinities are drastically cut short already. *

Please do not try to start your combo with an ice ball or include the ice ball as the bomb will not come out, that should be obvious. *

Good luck.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Hey whats the point of this?

those Rules are kinda ridiculous

two that came to mind would be ex bomb to ex freeze.....or is that DQ'ed because of the rule

also in corner, 2 1 1+2 NJ NJ (plants them), back up throw close bomb, dash 3 4 slide

 

[UsedForGlue]

The point is, Paulo said the reason his bombs won't be able to always freeze is because it prevents infinites and traps.

But I said that's not possible without U4 into mid bomb and it should be taken out, without it, you have no reason to disallow the freeze.

Yea, your EX bomb into EX freeze would be DQ'd as you have to make a read and use a second bar doing an en ice beam, and if your opponent doesn't jump, he will get unfroze from the bomb hit, and against teleporting opponents, they will always have a way out. And if the opponent jumped and got froze by the ice beam, how could trap them then? Like I said to Paulo, he would have no inescapable situations, and non that would be any different or worse an whet Cyrax has.

Those freeze rules are not mine, they are in the game already, can't bomb after bombs, can't freeze after bombs.

 

[UsedForGlue]

212+1 NJP (plant) back up bomb, opponent can wake up on your 34...

And if you bait the wake up, the opponent can jump out.

 

[rev0lver]

Isn't there no such thing as completely inescapable (even with pre patch cyrax) when you take breaker into account? Then again, I remember dookieagain showing me one that hits on breaker, but i think that one is situational.

 

[Altaire]

Breakers don't count. You can use a breaker to get out of anything (obviously excepting projectiles, blockstrings and so on, but you get the point). The point of a bomb trap is that it serves as one long combo.

I really don't think Cyber Sub has any guaranteed bomb traps outside of U4 bomb, and I've certainly tried. Nothing else seems to have enough advantage on hit to allow for this. You could basically prove that an infinite is impossible as it is, because even if the bombs froze 100% of the time, there's no way to trap outside of U4 bomb. I'm pretty sure you could just do the math to determine this one, in fact, because U4 is the only attack with enough advantage against a standing opponent to allow for a guaranteed bomb. Even then, there's no way to get an infinite or a reset off it, because on a bomb freeze, you're considered airborne. Cyber Sub has no way to return you to standing from that position, so there's really no way to use that for an infinite.

The closest Cyber Sub could get to a "reset", assuming bombs froze all the time, would be to follow a bomb freeze with U4 teleport and throw a bomb before they stand up (which currently guarantees that the followup bomb won't freeze in the build we're on now). This is still NEVER guaranteed, and depending on whether or not your opponent rolls, your bomb may not even reach them. Honestly, I just feel like there's nothing to prove to Paulo here. All the evidence can be found in the numbers.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

All i know is i like him the way he is

lol

 

[Altaire]

No, I agree. Like I said, I'd be okay if they fleshed the character out a little more, but if they never patch this character, I'll still main him with no regrets.

 

[UsedForGlue]

The whole idea of this is to prove a point.

Paulo Garcia said "the bombs will never freeze to prevent infinite and traps"

This decision was made before the game came out, it is out dated and invalid as far as how CSZ is used now. *I told him "there are no possible bomb traps or infinities", and this is just putting it anyone who thinks otherwise. *

Someone mentioned that Cyrax has no guaranteed bomb traps, and thats true, and because of that fact, his bombs work perfectly, but word from NRS is that cyber sub zero has "traps" and "infinities", but I have never seen one, and it's not possible.

So if it isn't possible, what is stopping them from making the change?

For the record, CSZ is my main, I will use him regardless.

This challenge is just a matter of fact and to prove my point once and for all.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Isn't there no such thing as completely inescapable (even with pre patch cyrax) when you take breaker into account? Then again, I remember dookieagain showing me one that hits on breaker, but i think that one is situational.

I already mentioned, if the opponent has no choice but to get hit and cannot make reads or guesses. The Cyrax bomb trap left the opponent no choice but to get hit by 22 and break. That's a trap, once the bomb is deployed, your choice is made for you. And that was taken out quite quickly.

NRS will keep up4 into bombs and not let them freeze when that it his only trap, if they get rid of that then nothing is stopping them from making the change.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Fuck me, I forgot the best part about this NRS infinite and trap rule, let's say you happened to somehow catch them with a bomb in a situational set up, so what? How is it possible to infinite from there on wards? You can't throw another bomb directly afterwards and you can't double freeze with an ice ball.

So where exactly is this "infinite" scenario NRS mentioned?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Nothing is changing so these threads are ehh

the only thing you can do is find him in chat and continuously ask lol

 

[spongebob]

Have you read this post by paulo in this sonya thread?

http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?11461-NRS-sonya-bug-is-pretty-vague-really

I think its a good enough reason as to why NRS are simply are unable to fix every single thing people want for their character. I don't play CSZ but I'm sure it would make sense and NRS may have even considered it, but I guess they cant do everything.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Nothing is changing so these threads are ehh

the only thing you can do is find him in chat and continuously ask lol

I dont expect anything to change form this, It would be silly of me to think something like that would happen as a result of this thread. But this is an MK forum, and it seems the perfect place for to ask you guys about it.

I honestly don't think I will get a good answer from anyone about what I have purposed, as the infinite/trap scenario simply isn't possible without U4.

I am only going by what I was told by Paulo Garcia, ''bombs will only freeze when the opponent can block'' and when I do that, the bombs still don't freeze on occasion. And they don't freeze because he said ''it prevents traps and infinities'' even though that isn't possible without U4, and that leads to massive resets that should never exist, and with that U4 in place, it will stop bombs from ever being changed.

And in the last patch, correct me if I am wrong, but NRS put in a switch for the bombs to freeze and is set to OFF...So to me, if all the facts were taken into consideration, it doesn't seem like such a difficult task at hand to change the bombs over.

 

[Ether]

This can't be done.

 

[Altaire]

I dont expect anything to change form this, It would be silly of me to think something like that would happen as a result of this thread. But this is an MK forum, and it seems the perfect place for to ask you guys about it.

I honestly don't think I will get a good answer from anyone about what I have purposed, as the infinite/trap scenario simply isn't possible without U4.

I am only going by what I was told by Paulo Garcia, ''bombs will only freeze when the opponent can block'' and when I do that, the bombs still don't freeze on occasion. And they don't freeze because he said ''it prevents traps and infinities'' even though that isn't possible without U4, and that leads to massive resets that should never exist, and with that U4 in place, it will stop bombs from ever being changed.

And in the last patch, correct me if I am wrong, but NRS put in a switch for the bombs to freeze and is set to OFF...So to me, if all the facts were taken into consideration, it doesn't seem like such a difficult task at hand to change the bombs over.

Yeah, this switch is in the game, which just goes to show that they've been thinking about it.

My biggest issue here is that it does nothing for his bad matchups. It's almost impossible to get a good Kung Lao, Kitana or Kabal in a bomb setup. You can maybe tag Mileena, but that's still easier said than done. If Cyber Sub gets anything in a patch, I want it to be something that helps to level out his bad matchups, because right now, they're absolutely crippling. Kabal does to Cyber Sub what Cyber Sub does to Shang Tsung.

In the meantime, one upside Cyber Sub has to his bombs is that when you get a bomb knockdown while in a neutral position, you have enough advantage that you can almost always throw out another bomb to try and go for another bomb knockdown, so long as your opponent can't punish you on wakeup (Nightwolf's EX shoulder and Cage's EX shadow kick are obviously going to stuff this).

 

[UsedForGlue]

I have been rooting for along time to get his pokes changed if anything, and cool down the parry.

But these are facts about the bombs, and all I am doing is asking questions, based on what Paulo told me, and it's all contradictory.

 

[Altaire]

I have been rooting for along time to get his pokes changed if anything, and cool down the parry.

But these are facts about the bombs, and all I am doing is asking questions, based on what Paulo told me, and it's all contradictory.

Well, if he had a 7 frame D1, that'd help with the Kabal matchup somewhat, but he still gets blown up so badly by his IAF. Kitana's IAF is bearable, because you can maneuver around that, albeit with certain difficulty. If she does a high air fan, you can teleport before she recovers, and if she does a perfect, low-to-the-ground IAF, you can jump over it and whiff a divekick to get to the ground safely. That just isn't an option with Kabal, because if you aren't psychic, he can bait you into jumping just to run and punish you with a full combo.

Granted, a faster D1 would make the Kung Lao and Sub Zero matchups a lot more even as well. He just needs SOMETHING a little faster.

 

[LOCO]

can u realalize deeze errors with bombs and still think cyber does not need fixing?

matter of fact, used for glue has made a multitude of problems visible to the community's blind eyes, and ya'll still decide to be blind?

cyber needs a fix, he's great as is right now, but even an injured player can still be great and fight it out, dat doesn't mean they should stay injured

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Yeah, this switch is in the game, which just goes to show that they've been thinking about it.

My biggest issue here is that it does nothing for his bad matchups. It's almost impossible to get a good Kung Lao, Kitana or Kabal in a bomb setup. You can maybe tag Mileena, but that's still easier said than done. If Cyber Sub gets anything in a patch, I want it to be something that helps to level out his bad matchups, because right now, they're absolutely crippling. Kabal does to Cyber Sub what Cyber Sub does to Shang Tsung.

In the meantime, one upside Cyber Sub has to his bombs is that when you get a bomb knockdown while in a neutral position, you have enough advantage that you can almost always throw out another bomb to try and go for another bomb knockdown, so long as your opponent can't punish you on wakeup (Nightwolf's EX shoulder and Cage's EX shadow kick are obviously going to stuff this).

I want to comment about the Shang Matchup

I am a huge advocate that this is not in CSZ's favor i actually feel the opposite and that it is in Shang's favor.

Allow me to explain.

This whole notion is based on the dive kick beats out shang's fireballs. Ok what you're doing here is risking hitting shang with a dive kick (what 8%?) in chance of an excellent shang player knowing this and knowing how to properly zone you out not with skulls but with ground skulls which all lead to an unbreakable 40% 1 meter combo.

So you're risking 8% random dives and dives on reaction to maybe get nailed with a 1 meter 40% combo?

I BEG all of you to play Detroit Balling's Shang Tsung if you have any doubt about what im saying. Dumb shang players get beat 8-2 by CSZ because they dont space and zone properly.

Did you know a blocked dive kick leads to 40% as well? So detroit has this nice technique where if i jump to possibly dive he dashes forward so the dive lands high to where it's punishable by full combo. I believe this 8-2 crap was originally said because no one played Shang at a high level and most still dont.

5-5 or 4-6 IMO.

I can go on if need to about how ineffective csz teleport is against shang, as well as bad trade offs w specials, slide useless and bombs useless (bad trade off as well)

The only way to beat a great shang player is get in and stay in period and dont f up.

 

[Altaire]

You know, you raise a good point. If I'm not mistaken, he could even throw out a mid ground skull in anticipation of a divekick, and when you recoil, that'll hit you for another 8% back. Hell, Shang's normals are actually faster than Cyber Sub's is, so he could probably just beat him punch-for-punch anyway.

In fact, now that I think about it, Shang vs. Cyber Sub really doesn't sound like that bad of a matchup at all. The 8-2/9-1 bullshit was originally stated by Brady, FYI, and I guess it just held true for so long because no one really contested it (and it's not like there was a whole lot of Cyber Sub vs. Shang in high level play). He's been saying that for months now.