The effects of online, ping etc. on gameplay-related questions

[Nessup12345]

I am not experienced in fighting games in general. MK11 is the first fighting game I actually began playing regularly online. I have noticed though that in some matches I cannot reinforce my plus frames or cannot take turn back against a poke masher after I block a poke, I cannot punish moves that are normally should be easily punished. Sometimes I get hit by the low part of a string even if I press down after blocking the first hit, etc.

Can someone explain what effects online (with different pings) has on frame data and how you should adjust your gameplay based on those effects?

 

[Marinjuana]

Online gaming has to make up for the delay between connections, and it's much more noticeable in fighting games where every frame and input matters. Different games do it differently but the general gist of the MK11 netcode is that there's a couple of frames of input delay and then a different amount of visual delay depending on the quality of the connection. There's always a couple frames of input delay, which means you have to input stuff earlier than you would offline.. that could make a punish slightly harder or have you block late. Good connections will have less visual delay and will make it easier to react to stuff. In a bad connection, it's going to be hard to react to Sub's slide or Scorpion's teleport.

So you have visual delay depending on connection quality which makes it harder to react to opponent, and you always have a couple frames of input delay which means you have to input stuff slightly earlier.

Unless your internet is what it is, don't play in bad connections and you won't have to deal with adjusting your gameplay to make up for laggy Kung Lao's teleport mix. It is slightly yet significantly harder to react to things online, throw techs in particular are much more difficult.. But you don't have to adjust any of your gameplay really. There's a setting in the options menu to make it so offline has that input delay inherently, which I'd highly recommend to get used to it.

 

[Nessup12345]

So you have visual delay depending on connection quality which makes it harder to react to opponent, and you always have a couple frames of input delay which means you have to input stuff slightly earlier.

So basically when I rely on visual cues i.e. wait for the end of an animation and then try to punish or do something when it finishes I might be already too late frame-wise because of the visual delay, am I getting this right?

On a related note, does this also affect the timing of flawless blocking? I flawless block jump ins with a decent consistency against ai (in a fight as well, not just against recorded jump ins in training mode, although of course it is much harder in a real fight than just anticipating a prerecorded move) but I literally cannot do it online with 100 plus pings.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

@Nessup12345 If you plan to play online a lot, there is an option you can enable to add Online Delay in practice mode, so you can practice your online timing. If you go to Options > Online, turn on Offline Input Delay.

But yes, online delay can make some things more safe or unreactable than they would be offline. The absolute best thing you can do is just play on a WIRED connection; no wifi if it can be avoided.

 

[Nessup12345]

@Nessup12345 If you plan to play online a lot, there is an option you can enable to add Online Delay in practice mode, so you can practice your online timing. If you go to Options > Online, turn on Offline Input Delay.

But yes, online delay can make some things more safe or unreactable than they would be offline. The absolute best thing you can do is just play on a WIRED connection; no wifi if it can be avoided.

Thank you, I will try this option. Yes I am on wired connection but unfortunately the absolute majority of players I meet online are on WiFi

 

[Komatose]

Any lag of any sort: online lag, TV/monitor lag, controller to console/PC lag, etc., leads to input lag. If you are +7 and have 3 frames of lag, you’re only going to be plus 4 in reality regardless if you block, poke, etc. right after. I love playing online but unless you’re against another player that is a tournament player, plays seriously or is a competitive player, you should treat online like online. Because 9 times out of 10, if you’re treating the game very specifically and your opponent is an online warrior that has even an ounce of know-how, they are going to win because while you’re over here calculating your frames, they’re already thinking about their fatal blow and mashing the next button. You won’t win lol.

Also, like @RoboCop said. If you want to get very well adjusted to online, there is a latency adjustment option in practice that will get you more attuned to future online matches.

And to add, I noticed you said you focus a lot on visual cues. That’s great. Do not stop doing that as it will improve your reaction time and improve muscle memory overall.

 

[1man3letters]

Thank you, I will try this option. Yes I am on wired connection but unfortunately the absolute majority of players I meet online are on WiFi

Your brand new to fighting games but yet you have the sense to use a ethernet, I like you, wish was more like you

 

[Komatose]

Your brand new to fighting games but yet you have the sense to use a ethernet, I like you, wish was more like you

thumbs down react

 

[1man3letters]

thumbs down react

Your a WiFi bandit?

 

[DeftMonk]

thumbs down react

Ewww

 

[Nessup12345]

. I love playing online but unless you’re against another player that is a tournament player, plays seriously or is a competitive player, you should treat online like online. Because 9 times out of 10, if you’re treating the game very specifically and your opponent is an online warrior that has even an ounce of know-how, they are going to win because while you’re over here calculating your frames, they’re already thinking about their fatal blow and mashing the next button. You won’t win lol.
.

heh, I have had to learn this hard reality very quickly lol. On the bright side, it forced me to pay more attention to the opponents meter and go meatying on wake ups, take notice of their mashing patterns, utilize wiff punishing more, be ready for a random fatal blow on the first frame it becomes available, etc. But playing against purely random mashers is still a stressful experience)

 

[Nessup12345]

Your brand new to fighting games but yet you have the sense to use a ethernet, I like you, wish was more like you

I was actually unpleasantly surprised, because I first bought a copy of mk11 for the switch for cheap to get the taste of the game so to speak. It was fun to play in single player mode, story etc. but online is extremely laggy 9 out of 10 times. I hoped once I buy it for PS it will be all different. I mean, the switch is portable after all, but PlayStation sits in one place so there should be much more people on wired connection. After all, wired connection is a good thing for any online game I didn’t have it specifically for MK. But unfortunately, it is still WiFi all the way. I understand that in the USA the houses are large so it might be more difficult to get your console wired, but in the European region, where I am playing everyone lives in smaller houses or flats where you need just a couple of meters of cable and you are good to go. And still few people bother(

 

[theotherguy]

And still few people bother(

It's more just a case of wifi is easier for the majority. No need to worry about plugging in cables, making sure you have a cable, the right length - just enter your wifi password and off you go.

And for that matter most people don't know or care, because good enough is good enough. It's unfortunate, but that's the way it is, and it's like that for a lot of things, not just wifi v wired.

 

[ismael4790]

A mediocre/bad connection can literally change a matchup. Specially in cases where there are fast attacks or teleports involved that are designed (as they should) with offline behaviour in mind. In mkx I would highlight Kung Lao's post patch instant teleport, which is fine offline but good luck if you are playing online with a ping of 170ms or more. In mk11, Sub Zero is usually presented as an example of a character whose mix becomes stronger online.

Something that is reactable offline can easily go to that grey area between being barely reactable and almost a read due to a bad connection and therefore become harder to be countered.

 

[Gooberking]

So basically when I rely on visual cues i.e. wait for the end of an animation and then try to punish or do something when it finishes I might be already too late frame-wise because of the visual delay, am I getting this right?

I may be reading into phrasing here but I wanted to back up an highlight this specifically and pull it completely out of an online context.

The main reason I bring it up is if you are saying you are waiting for your opponent's attack animation to end, that's actually not when you want to be counter attacking, and depending on the attack and lag sources involved, could attribute to you getting beat out against someone going for more buttons.

If you are visually trying to queue off something, you want to start countering the moment your block animation ends, which can be significantly sooner than your opponent's recovery frames end. If you wait until they are winding down their animation, then what you are doing is throwing away your advantage frames, and waiting until you both return to neutral. At that point whatever character has the fastest button is going to be the one with the best situation.

Add any lag sources, and you may be in worse disadvantage because you are going off of what you see, where as they know the perfect timing to press a button after whatever it was they did; since they do it all the time.

It's not particularly easy or not natural for a lot of people. I don't follow my own advice, I started watching my opponent exclusively way too many years ago. I think it's too late for me, but when you are being forced to block, try to pay attention to what they did, and when your character actually frees up from blocking.

I don't know if that has anything to do with stuff you were picking up on but it theoretically could. The game will delay your inputs 3 frames (as of NRS's GDC network keynote during IJ2) and that is on top of your reactions. So if you waited until their animation ends as a habit, online you are basically going to be -3 every time you block all day long.

Eventually you will start to memorize/practice moves and the right time to counter instead of trying to reactively figure out when something ends, but again that takes time with a specific game.

 

[Gooberking]

Sometimes I get hit by the low part of a string even if I press down after blocking the first hit, etc.

Checking to make sure you mean down back here and not just down. You could block using down in IJ but not in much of anything else including MK11

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Really it’s kind of simple.. You just have to remember that the delay is variable — so if you aren’t getting things off that look like they were inputted in time, you just input them a little earlier next time.

Early in a match you feel out the delay and play the rest of the match accordingly.

After doing this enough, you’ll start to do it automatically, without even thinking about it much unless the connection is really bad.

 

[Nessup12345]

The main reason I bring it up is if you are saying you are waiting for your opponent's attack animation to end, that's actually not when you want to be counter attacking, and depending on the attack and lag sources involved, could attribute to you getting beat out against someone going for more buttons.

If you are visually trying to queue off something, you want to start countering the moment your block animation ends, which can be significantly sooner than your opponent's recovery frames end. If you wait until they are winding down their animation, then what you are doing is throwing away your advantage frames, and waiting until you both return to neutral.) <…> So if you waited until their animation ends as a habit, online you are basically going to be -3 every time you block all day long.

Thanks a lot for this, that has made perfect sense and looks like my problem in the nutshell.

 

[Nessup12345]

Checking to make sure you mean down back here and not just down. You could block using down in IJ but not in much of anything else including MK11

I mean I still keep blocking but press down to crouch block and counter the the low part of a string. But I see now why I might be too late doing it.