Question Subbzy vs Projectile Rushing

[Sage Leviathan]

I figured that this deserves its own thread, as it is a real problem that Sub Zero players face.

How do you counter THE PROJECTILE RUSHING of those like Reptile, Noob, Kitana, Kano, Sindel, Kung Lao, etc?

Yes, i know, a simple trade may do the trick. This may not always be the case, however.

How do you Sub Zero players handle this? Discuss and share your methods please.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

I figured that this deserves its own thread, as it is a real problem that Sub Zero players face.

How do you counter THE PROJECTILE RUSHING of those like Reptile, Noob, Kitana, Kano, Sindel, Kung Lao, etc?

Yes, i know, a simple trade may do the trick. This may not always be the case, however.

How do you Sub Zero players handle this? Discuss and share your methods please.

Godzilla those bitches.

Seriously. Noob is probably the worst now. There is only a small space in which Sub can trade, and now that Noob's teleport grabs the freeze animation... most noobs just wait till you get there and teleport on that animation (its easy as hell to see). Mileena does the same thing with Sais and TeleKick as does Sektor with Missiles and TU.

Basically you have to dash block the projectiles and get within d4 range. Subs D4 is awesome and his best footsie tool. Leads to 2,2 or 2,1 pressure on a hit. I really don't ever exSlide unless my back is in ... or close to the corner. I'd rather eat one projectile and get in. Sub has advantage over all of the "zoning" characters when in close. At the very LEAST ... his d4 stuffs most wakeup attacks (not noobs up knee however) which again will lead into more pressure. I only try to trade when I have a clone behind me, teleporters hate it.

Reptile and Kitana are the only two that I try to trade with and not have a clone up. Reptile is even more fun when he slow force ball dashes, because you can catch the dash with an ice ball and eat the forecball... and still combo now. So much fun!!

Again i'm not very good, and I don't always execute the right tactics. I can at least say this a ground level tactic, whereas there are probably better character specific things you can do.

 

[zee]

Against a Noob who teleports on reaction to Ice Blasts, try faking an Ice Blast once in a while. Charge B+2, then quickly dash out and block.

Once he's cautious to not teleport freely, you can be slightly more liberal with your Ice Blasts.

 

[Creepy00]

I havent experience enough to talk about sub vs noob match up, but sub's iceball at close range beats most of noob s wake ups, allowing you to combo. Dont know if this change with the addition of frames on wake ups.
Reptile and kitana shouldnt be a problem in trading.

 

[Verstande]

An Enhanced freeze should do the trick, when I'm iAFing with Kitana, that always get's me, and I'm pretty sure it's inescapable.

 

[Dark_Rob]

Noob is by far the worst of them now because from anywhere other than full screen(where Sub doesnt want to be) its a total guessing game. Guess right alot and your in pretty good shape once you get in, guess wrong and you could lose over 50% of your health just trying to get in.
One thing I thought about that I need to try out with Hitoshura is to by default, when in doubt, block high. The reason is if your gonna get hit then its better to get hit by the low shadow slide then it is by the tackle, since the slide only staggers you a little while tackle takes you down and puts you back across the screen. Il take the damage but the position loss is the real killer with the tackle.
The first half of the screen is easy, since it doesnt matter what he throws you can just jump over it. Once your at half screen is where it gets tricky. Trading ice blasts used to be good here as did making the noob player guess between slide/tackle or upknee against the jump in possibility. Now because he has the teleport grab you gotta make real careful reads on when to throw ice blasts.
Noob can get up against Subzero, thats just the way it is. The hit box on upkick is crazy, if you try to D4 him as hes getting up, you'll get hit, try to cross over jump him and you'll still get hit. Even a distanced 2,2 is beat by it on wakeup.
I usually play for the knockdown with Subzero but with Noob we are going to have to change our strategy because we just cant stop him from getting up reliably the way we can with say Kitana.
So what do we do then? Against my better judgement I think it might be better to go for Jip,B1,2,1 after any combo into freeze. The reason being is Subzero wins this match by continuous pressure. By using B1,2,1 we stagger him on the last hit allowing us to dash in and continue to pressure him and he can do nothing but block. Its counter intuitive to how I play Sub because it sacrifices damage and the knockdown for continued pressure and meter building. But in the Noob matchup i think these are more important because its to easy for noob to wake up with upkick and create space for himself. Since Noob can get up on Subzero the best thing we may be able to do is not knock him down and instead keep up a barrage of pressure. Noob still has no way to deal with Sub up close. His normals are trash compared to Sub's.
If anyone has a better idea, Im all ears.

 

[Panque]

Yeah, noob, what a bitch.

Just left online. I was fighting the same guy for hours. at first I babalitied his Jax, Kano and even rain, among others I can't remember right now (The guy really sucks). Then that same guy picks noob and starts a big win streak! I immediately tough "So Noob is the new Skarlet now huh?". I still managed to beat him from time to time, by using some tatics I don't use very frequently.

The first round I managed to beat him was when I satarted trying :en slide into clone. I never did it on a frequent basis during a match, so I had to learn it in the middle of it. Turns out an aerial clone at the middle of the screen when Noob is on the end of it "spamming" shadows is really consistent. Giving some tought about it would recommend it as a mix up tool instead of doing it the whole match like I did (I was kind of salty, u know? :3). The best part of it is that having a clone up in the right position will make the Noob respect your :en slide, at least until he adapts to it (Like my opponent did on the next round)

After that round I won it all went to hell again. He learned how to position himself in a way the slide almost never droved him into the clone and started being more cautious. I guess I was so salty at the time that I didn't think about trading the shadows with the ice blast. A mix of trading in the right moment and :en slide into clone won me a few matches then I left.

Another thing that I should have done is what Creepy00 said (Thanks man), ice blast on his wakeup. That up-knee was killing my momentum every single time.

Guess keeping him standing must work too. Gotta try this out.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Rob would he (Noob) be the only guy you really want to keep standing? I agree that it seems kind of backwards to do. Basically everyone else in the game doesn't have the same presence on their back as Noob does correct?

 

[Tremloc]

Noob is by far the worst of them now because from anywhere other than full screen(where Sub doesnt want to be) its a total guessing game. Guess right alot and your in pretty good shape once you get in, guess wrong and you could lose over 50% of your health just trying to get in.
One thing I thought about that I need to try out with Hitoshura is to by default, when in doubt, block high. The reason is if your gonna get hit then its better to get hit by the low shadow slide then it is by the tackle, since the slide only staggers you a little while tackle takes you down and puts you back across the screen. Il take the damage but the position loss is the real killer with the tackle.
The first half of the screen is easy, since it doesnt matter what he throws you can just jump over it. Once your at half screen is where it gets tricky. Trading ice blasts used to be good here as did making the noob player guess between slide/tackle or upknee against the jump in possibility. Now because he has the teleport grab you gotta make real careful reads on when to throw ice blasts.
Noob can get up against Subzero, thats just the way it is. The hit box on upkick is crazy, if you try to D4 him as hes getting up, you'll get hit, try to cross over jump him and you'll still get hit. Even a distanced 2,2 is beat by it on wakeup.
I usually play for the knockdown with Subzero but with Noob we are going to have to change our strategy because we just cant stop him from getting up reliably the way we can with say Kitana.
So what do we do then? Against my better judgement I think it might be better to go for Jip,B1,2,1 after any combo into freeze. The reason being is Subzero wins this match by continuous pressure. By using B1,2,1 we stagger him on the last hit allowing us to dash in and continue to pressure him and he can do nothing but block. Its counter intuitive to how I play Sub because it sacrifices damage and the knockdown for continued pressure and meter building. But in the Noob matchup i think these are more important because its to easy for noob to wake up with upkick and create space for himself. Since Noob can get up on Subzero the best thing we may be able to do is not knock him down and instead keep up a barrage of pressure. Noob still has no way to deal with Sub up close. His normals are trash compared to Sub's.
If anyone has a better idea, Im all ears.

Preventing the knockdown against noob is good and here's another strategy I throw out there:

On wakeup bait the upknee then freeze or slide. Most noob players are DYING to upknee when they get knocked down. Dash close or move forward, then throw a freeze. Obviously once they've been hit by this tactic they'll think twice about automatically spamming upknee when they get knocked down, so you can be a little more liberal with your pressure.