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Sub Zero?

rotanadan

Mortal
Can't come from the front, ice clone. Can't teleport, 22 string. Can't range you'll get froze. Best I can do is bait the slide and punish it, what do you guys do against him?
 

Jelan

Aquaman is dead lel
If he is blocking while you teleport it's a safe grab. Ex-Superman goes through clone and can be used to get him in the corner. Once he is there make sure he is going to stay. After blocked wakeup slide it's a free 32-38% bnb (based on if he's in a corner). F24 grants you a grab if blocked also (I think :hammer: ) and if not it can be followed up with Superman for 22% dmg. Imo 1 is a great poke, use it wisely, and you can also do 30 something% from the 121 string. Be sure to use Ex-Lightning Ball too, safe teleport. He is going to block so it's a grab again. And if not a 30 something% bnb. I believe Raiden is actually one of the harder matchups for Subby.

My opinion and tactics. :violin:
 

Albo

Apprentice
yep sub zero is going to be much, much more difficult for raiden players to play against. as tom brady said in last weeks stbl show all sub has to use to defeat raiden ex superman is his regular clone and blast. he can put a clone on the screen and walk just slightly in front of it in order to freeze raiden if he attempts to tele. sub can then throw ice blasts and if raiden ex supermans through the ice blast, the clone will freeze him and sub gets a full combo. you can listen to it at around 36:40: http://www.justin.tv/s1lent1/b/289790295

i havn't faced many advanced sub players so i don't usually have trouble with sub zero's. the solution for the 22 string that i suggest is to watch out if he is blocking or not when you are at a distance. if he is blocking then teleport as there is a high chance he will not input the 22 fast enough. after teleporting you can try d3 to put him in a stagger state or you can try a combo like f2,4 which is fast and safe. raidens d3 is 7 frames and subs 222 is 9 frames so you should get him first. raidens f24 and 334 is 12 frames and his 1212 is equal to subs 22 at 9 frames but you have to remember raiden has recovery frames on his tele. if he is not then you can try ex tele or just superman, but use superman cautiously in this situation as you will be punished if he managed to block. if he puts a clone in front then you can ex superman but watch out as he can play mind games with you and stand behind it blocking expecting you to ex superman. if he is blocking behind it then you can teleport. whats is also very important is not to make your teleports predictable so he can punish easily therefore you can try and dash block towards him making him think you are going to eventually jump punch in but teleport at any time convinient for you. while you are closing in on him, make sure to watch out for regular slide.

sub zero to me is just as effective in being unpredictable and playing mind games with his clone as raiden with his tele and superman.what i usually do is throw some projectiles at a disatnce to build meter and if i see him throwice blast then i immediately duck while being cautious as he could slide or ex which i can react, block and punish. if they decide to do constant ice blasts in a predictable pattern then you can ex superman if they don't have a clone behind them. for sub to be successful in this matchup he has has to have a clone on the screen to counter raidens tele and be throwing ice blasts to punish ex superman while the clone is active behind him. doing that as a sub player is very frustrating tactic which is where they will carelessly start using slides from the experience i've had playing against them. sometimes clones will disappear while they are mid animation of throwing an ice blast which you can punish with a tele and full combo. if the player decides to dash block towards you then be wary of his slide as it is difficulty to react to up close. if he decides to jump towards you then you can punish with ex shocker or an uppercut. sometimes they will jump towards you making you think they are about to jump in for a punch, but they cancel the jp with an ice clone mid air. patience and disipline is key to being successful against sub as he want to be agressive and get in for pressure and as a raiden player your role is to put him out of his comfort zone and dictate the pace of the fight

this just some advice i can give you for now and i'll try and add to it if i remember more, but as said, i don't have much experience against advanced sub players in particular.

there's already a matchups thread on the front page of the raiden board btw a few threads below this one and the it discusses the sub matchup: http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?5102-Raiden-Match-ups-thread