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Strategy - Sub-Zero Sub Zero Punishing and Pressure

Nate

Nate

Mutant Rebel
Hi everyone, first post here so I figured I'd make a place to discuss something I struggle with the most and that's punishing. I've recently switched from cryomancer (which is still awesome) to grandmaster just to see what all the rage is about. Well I'm having a much harder time so far now that I don't have super easy 40% mid screen and corner, and without a nice ex-hammer to cancel into to catch people off guard with.

I just want this thread to be a place where people can post any questions about how to best punish certain specials or strings, as well as how to react to and start pressure.

I have two quick questions I was hoping I could be helped with. Sometimes when I'm being pressured, I block, and answer back with a D3, I feel like this should give me enough plus frames to start my pressure, so I'll try for a b12 (I know 11 is fast but usually people duck so the first 1 whiffs and my pressure is gone) but I usually just get d3'd out of my attempt to begin pressure. Am I missing something? I mean, isn't that what I do after I connect a d3? I'm not horrible at fighting games by any means, I can do combo's and win quite a few games, but I know if I want to level up, I need to get better at things like this. So I was hoping for an answer on how to follow up a connected d3, as well as maybe a technique to help make me aware of when I can enter the first input for b12 so I'm not just mashing and hoping it comes out on the first frame y'know? So i'm kind of looking for advice on how to get the pressure started properly and keep it going.

My next question is what is my best punish at a distance? It drives me fucking crazy that I manage to block things successfully but I'm left to fucking far away to do anything. Do I D4 and then f42 with my plus frames? Or just F42 immediately?

Sorry for the lengthy post, I've read through a ton of the sub general discussion and combo threads and haven't really found exactly what I'm looking for, thanks in advance for any help, and thanks for being such an awesome community. I've been lurking ever since injustice, and have been back every day religiously since MKX launch!
 
sling1414

sling1414

Noob
After u hit a D3 or D4 it puts u at enough of an advantage to go for a mix up, so just try to change it up, go for a grab, overhead, or a low based on how ur opponent has been blocking. Also Grandmaster has much harder inputs than cryo so dont get discouraged.

As for being at a distance, F4 into ice ball is good if their move is unsafe enough, alternatively u can use that time to put out a clone and zone a bit for some meter before going in, u can also try a run up grab as most ppl will freeze up when u run towards them (careful, some ppl are pretty yolo).

After a connected D4 at some distance dont be afraid to run towards ur opponent if theyre a little far away for something like B33 to hit, the plus frames on hit of the D4 will give u just enough time to run up and try to mix them up
 
Nate

Nate

Mutant Rebel
Does a d3 even give enough time to safely put out a back 2 if I'm at a bit of a distance?
Also, what is the best way to make sure I'm being as frame perfect as possible? I've been going into training and I'll do a d3 and then hold up to see when the jump comes out, I'll also try to hit as many d3's in a row nice and smooth and fast to get an idea as to when I can do the next move. Is this sort of thing the right idea? Is this what I need to do to make sure I don't get poked out of my pressure?
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
D4 has 17 frames of advantage on hit and starts at 8 frames like d3, but it has more pushback, so if you're in the corner, hit a d4 not a d3 and go for your pressure, they can't interrupt that.

In midscreen if you get a d3 go for a couple more d3s. Even if they block it it's neutral and starts at 8 frames so it's not easy to poke out of it. Do it a couple of times to train them to stop pressing buttons after you hit a d3. When you have that after a D3 you can start going for a b12 or whatever you want.
 
Nate

Nate

Mutant Rebel
LaidbackOne said:
It does. Why would I tell you that you can cancel it into ice ball if you couldn't ;)
Click to expand...
Well canceling it, and having it actually combo are two different things is all I was getting at lol. But thanks. I had no idea, that certainly changes everything, I'm not sure the frames on F4 but I'm sure it's going to work in a ton of situations where I'm left to far away for the b1 of b12 to hit.

Another question for anyone willing to answer. I find sometimes after I've blocked a string or special, say I'll go to punish with a b12 only to find I've input the commands far to early so the game eats the inputs, or worse, too late, and even though I should be at a massive advantage because I've blocked something very unsafe, I get hit out of it, so my question is how do you train this?

Do you use a visual cue on Sub zero himself to let yourself know your good to press buttons, or do you do a case by case basis? As an example, I was having trouble hitting Mileena with 242 after her telekick because of the timing of my inputs, so I recorded a telekick, blocked it and held up to see when I could act and now I know I can start pressing buttons pretty much as soon as her feet touch the ground after a blocked tele kick. Just interested to hear how other people learn these things. As there may be an easier way than recording strings against myself in the lab from the entire cast.
 
LaidbackOne

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
Nate said:
Well canceling it, and having it actually combo are two different things is all I was getting at lol. But thanks. I had no idea, that certainly changes everything, I'm not sure the frames on F4 but I'm sure it's going to work in a ton of situations where I'm left to far away for the b1 of b12 to hit.

Another question for anyone willing to answer. I find sometimes after I've blocked a string or special, say I'll go to punish with a b12 only to find I've input the commands far to early so the game eats the inputs, or worse, too late, and even though I should be at a massive advantage because I've blocked something very unsafe, I get hit out of it, so my question is how do you train this?

Do you use a visual cue on Sub zero himself to let yourself know your good to press buttons, or do you do a case by case basis? As an example, I was having trouble hitting Mileena with 242 after her telekick because of the timing of my inputs, so I recorded a telekick, blocked it and held up to see when I could act and now I know I can start pressing buttons pretty much as soon as her feet touch the ground after a blocked tele kick. Just interested to hear how other people learn these things. As there may be an easier way than recording strings against myself in the lab from the entire cast.
Click to expand...
You asked about the best punish at distance, I replied to you. I dont see why would I tell you to cancel f4 into ice ball if it didn't link into a combo. Nevermind though.
I usualy look at the animation after I block a specific move. Its kinda hard and you have to really check some of the punishable moves by yourself . Basically do what you did with Mileenas teleport. Record and immediately block. At least, thats how I do it and it worked so far.
 
Nate

Nate

Mutant Rebel
LaidbackOne said:
You asked about the best punish at distance, I replied to you. I dont see why would I tell you to cancel f4 into ice ball if it didn't link into a combo. Nevermind though.
I usualy look at the animation after I block a specific move. Its kinda hard and you have to really check some of the punishable moves by yourself . Basically do what you did with Mileenas teleport. Record and immediately block. At least, thats how I do it and it worked so far.
Click to expand...
I was just surprised is all, I thought that info would have popped up in Tom Brady's initial post on how to use all the moves. S'all good though. Right on, good to hear I'm at least on the right track. Thanks for the help.
 
Knoterror

Knoterror

Noob
LaidbackOne said:
F4 cancels into ice ball so it's basically your fastest "long" range punish option.
Click to expand...
This. I don't know why people don't know this is a thing. it's pretty much the only meterless way to full combo punish things with moderate pushback other than reversal slide. Kung Jin bo spin immediately comes to mind.
 
Nate

Nate

Mutant Rebel
Knoterror said:
This. I don't know why people don't know this is a thing. it's pretty much the only meterless way to full combo punish things with moderate pushback other than reversal slide. Kung Jin bo spin immediately comes to mind.
Click to expand...
Yeh, this one bit of knowledge has lead to many more wins. Great stuff.
 
Kanalratte

Kanalratte

aka FROSTIE
Knoterror said:
This. I don't know why people don't know this is a thing. it's pretty much the only meterless way to full combo punish things with moderate pushback other than reversal slide. Kung Jin bo spin immediately comes to mind.
Click to expand...
Problem is you have to input F4, ice ball very fast. for online i'm just doing F4,2,1+3 (as cryomancer).

Nate said:
Another question for anyone willing to answer. I find sometimes after I've blocked a string or special, say I'll go to punish with a b12 only to find I've input the commands far to early so the game eats the inputs, or worse, too late, and even though I should be at a massive advantage because I've blocked something very unsafe, I get hit out of it, so my question is how do you train this?
Click to expand...
just go to training mode. that's what i did. choose the character you want to counter. for example mileena, go to AI-options, set block mode to auto, then wake up mode on and finally the wake up attack mileena shall perform. now knock her down, she will perform your selected wake up attack, block it and try to punish. you will find out that you can almost punish all her specials with B1,2. or just look at her frame data. her specials are very negative on block, so are most of her combo strings. here is nice article about Frame data

https://www.reddit.com/r/Injusticegame/comments/1cm3lr/beginners_guide_to_frames/
 
LaidbackOne

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
Kanalratte said:
Problem is you have to input F4, ice ball very fast. for online i'm just doing F4,2,1+3 (as cryomancer).



just go to training mode. that's what i did. choose the character you want to counter. for example mileena, go to AI-options, set block mode to auto, then wake up mode on and finally the wake up attack mileena shall perform. now knock her down, she will perform your selected wake up attack, block it and try to punish. you will find out that you can almost punish all her specials with B1,2. or just look at her frame data. her specials are very negative on block, so are most of her combo strings. here is nice article about Frame data

https://www.reddit.com/r/Injusticegame/comments/1cm3lr/beginners_guide_to_frames/
Click to expand...
Or you can just use the reversal option...
 
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