Strepsiptera: The Issues

[Second Saint]

Strepsiptera bothers me. I've talked about it in the D'vorah discord, but I believe it is either not working as intended or was purposely limited in a frankly extreme way. It only starts combos in very particular circumstances, and no matter the hit advantage cannot be used to extend a combo unless it interrupts a 2 character animation, like a throw or hit grab.

My best guess as to the particular reasons it won't start combos is that it firstly will not start them at all for the first several active frames. This is a problem in the corner against wide hurtbox characters and is often an issue when someone forward rolls. It won't even link into itself at this stage, the first bug will explode and they will immediately be able to block the next ones. The issue with wide hurtboxes in the corner can greatly effect how her setups work to begin with if the bugs explode immediately instead of having a chance to orbit they go from effectively >+20 to around +3 or 4. This brings us to the second major issue in my estimation.

My exact reasoning for why may be wrong, but strepsiptera may not be starting combos out of block stun as well. For example, say I do a strep setup into raw db4. This is useful because that is a very negative move that strep makes plus eith the right timing. If someone were to take the bait and try to punish it, they will take 30 damage and no more, no matter how long the strep has been active. It will not link into itself if amplified, nor into any follow ups. In many other situations, this is a combo starter. Why is it not in this one?

I have racked my brain trying to figure out the rules for when it will and won't combo, but I've yet to figure it all out.

Another issue is that it is frankly totally random what kind of conversion you can get off of throws based on the exact timing and direction you were throwing and when the bug hits, because depending on when this happens, D'vorah and the opponent will either be knocked away from each other or toward each other. One of these allows a jump in, the other does not.

I'm not saying Strepsiptera is useless, it's one of the best setup moves in the game, at least in tournament varuations. But I genuinely don't know that all of this is intended.

 

[Tanya-Fan-28]

They need to buff it in such a way where:

1. It doesn't disappear when she gets hit
2. Or it doesn't disappear when she blocks
3. Dvorah doesn't get knocked down during throw or atleast be knocked down where the opponent gets a free jump in.

 

[Second Saint]

They need to buff it in such a way where:

1. It doesn't disappear when she gets hit
2. Or it doesn't disappear when she blocks
3. Dvorah doesn't get knocked down during throw or atleast be knocked down where the opponent gets a free jump in.

That last bit sounds more like a nerf to me. Do you just want throw combos gone or did you mean that D'vorah gets the jump in like she's supposed to?

 

[Tanya-Fan-28]

That last bit sounds more like a nerf to me. Do you just want throw combos gone or did you mean that D'vorah gets the jump in like she's supposed to?

Sorry my bad, not the opponent. Dvorah getting a free jump in when she throws in both directions, not just one

 

[ShadyHeart]

This issue actually applies to a lot of skills that function similarly. Raiden's lightning rod when amplified becomes a trap that zaps the opponent when they try to enter/leave the area but if the enemy is zapped while in hit stun they can always block the next hit no matter how fast you do it, no matter how plus you are. If they aren't in hit stun it starts combos.

 

[Second Saint]

This issue actually applies to a lot of skills that function similarly. Raiden's lightning rod when amplified becomes a trap that zaps the opponent when they try to enter/leave the area but if the enemy is zapped while in hit stun they can always block the next hit no matter how fast you do it, no matter how plus you are. If they aren't in hit stun it starts combos.

And on block? The hit stun part I've come to accept, but I cannot for the life of me figure out why it won't start combos in certain counter hit situations that are after the first few active frames.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I get a lot of good mileage out of it. While the opponent is locked down, you get free 50/50 pressure. This doesn’t amount to a ton of damage, but it’s still essentially free damage and can be used to easily close out a match.

When you consider that most non-launching amplified moves only add around 5% damage, I think she gains a fair amount of utility and free damage for the meter cost.

And even the non-amplified version shuts down the opponent once it’s hatched. Unless they’re on point with their punishes, it’s not too difficult to successfully plop it down during strings and in the neutral.

With that said, I do think it’s stupid that it goes away if she blocks. I’m fine with it going away when she’s hit, but going away on block is just nonsense.

 

[Second Saint]

I get a lot of good mileage out of it. While the opponent is locked down, you get free 50/50 pressure. This doesn’t amount to a ton of damage, but it’s still essentially free damage and can be used to easily close out a match.

When you consider that most non-launching amplified moves only add around 5% damage, I think she gains a fair amount of utility and free damage for the meter cost.

And even the non-amplified version shuts down the opponent once it’s hatched. Unless they’re on point with their punishes, it’s not too difficult to successfully plop it down during strings and in the neutral.

With that said, I do think it’s stupid that it goes away if she blocks. I’m fine with it going away when she’s hit, but going away on block is just nonsense.

My point was never that it's not good, even if I don't think they're that great, but to document the issues with it. Oh, and it seems amp df3 doesn't go away on block. It uses up one of the bugs, but the other two come out, although there's often a visual artifact where the last one comes out and does nothing. I could've sworn it used to just go away entirely, so she may have been stealth buffed, but I do recall seeing that same visual issue before, so maybe I was wrong about that.

D'vorah's 50/50 are so unintimidating once the throw option is gone, even when facing down 2 or 3 of them in the corner. Once it's down purely to a reactable overhead that does 70 damage and a low that does ~250, when you already likely sacrificed a considerable amount of damage just to start this setup, I'm just not impressed. Even the htb stuff is SO underwhelming. Yeah, let's sacrifice 7% damage for a setup that does a 13% htb and is -16. That 6% sure is worth all those risks.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

My point was never that it's not good, even if I don't think they're that great, but to document the issues with it. Oh, and it seems amp df3 doesn't go away on block. It uses up one of the bugs, but the other two come out, although there's often a visual artifact where the last one comes out and does nothing. I could've sworn it used to just go away entirely, so she may have been stealth buffed, but I do recall seeing that same visual issue before, so maybe I was wrong about that.

D'vorah's 50/50 are so unintimidating once the throw option is gone, even when facing down 2 or 3 of them in the corner. Once it's down purely to a reactable overhead that does 70 damage and a low that does ~250, when you already likely sacrificed a considerable amount of damage just to start this setup, I'm just not impressed. Even the htb stuff is SO underwhelming. Yeah, let's sacrifice 7% damage for a setup that does a 13% htb and is -16. That 6% sure is worth all those risks.

I gotcha, I just disagree with a lot of that 2nd paragraph. I do agree that her pressure is almost entirely unintimidating. She deals so little damage overall that she has to open her opponent up 20 times to win the match. 1 bar of meter allows you to potentially open up your opponent 3 times, all with relative safety. I'd call that more than worth it. Even 3 overheads is 21% on top of the damage they take from the bugs. Again, for 1 bar of meter.

I'd also say that the overhead isn't reactable. Yes, it's slow, but the animation is subtle before it comes out. Combined with all the bugs flying and exploding, no one is going to be reacting to that overhead.

I do agree that sacrificing damage for the setup is never worth it. I only plop it down in the corner after a knockdown, or if the opponent is turtling up hard. Or I'll slip it into a block-string if I have enough health to mitigate the risk.

Overall, I just don't think it's meant to be a kombo tool, and it would probably be way overpowered if it was.