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Breakthrough - Fisticuffs Speedbag on block is inconsistent

ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
@colt

This has been happening all the time, but as I see that it still has not been fixed, here it is.

On block, speedbag works inconsistently. Here is an example with Sub-Zero. Some times the 5th hit will whiff, other times the 6th one will do, and other times all hits will land. It doesn't look like one can predict what is going to happen, which is really annoying, because the opponent can get a poke out chance when they shouldn't.


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This is only one case. For each character the variety of possible undesired issues can be different (there's even a case where you can never get more than 4 hits). All are listed below. There could be some mistakes, but I think this illustrates the situation:

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The testing has been done with maximum of 6 hits. In some rare cases you can get 7 (for example Shinnok and Kano) but the 6th hit can whiff.

Below are listed the numbers of those hits that can whiff, vs all characters and positions, always considering you start speedbag just next to the opponent. In the following, with "5&6" I mean BOTH 5th and 6th hits can whiff in the same speedbag attempt. If it says "5,6" it means some times the 5th hit can whiff, and others the 6th hit can whiff, but not both in the same attempt.

With almost every character it is possible that the 6 hits land on block, but unless "none" is listed, you can get an unpredictable whiff in that situation.
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Jason- Midscreen: None; Midscreen crouched: None; Corner: None; Corner crouuched: None.

Kung Lao - Midscreen: None; Midscreen crouched: 5; Corner: None; Corner crouched: 5.

Jax - Midscreen: 5, 5&6; Midscreen crouched: 5, 6; Corner: 5; Corner crouched: 5, 6.

Sonya - Midscreen: None; Midscreen crouched: 5, 6; Corner: None; Corner crouched: 5.

Kenshi - Midscreen: 5, 6; Midscreen crouched: 6; Corner: None, Corner crouched: 6.

Kitana - Midscreen: 5, 6; Midscreen crouched: 5; Corner: 5, Corner crouched: 5.

Scorpion - Midscreen: 5; Midscreen crouched: None; Corner: None, Corner crouched: None.

Sub Zero - Midscreen: 5, 6; Midscreen crouched: 5, 6; Corner: 5, Corner crouched: 5, 6.

Mileena - Midscreen: 5; Midscreen crouched: 5; Corner: 5, Corner crouched: 5.

Takeda - Midscreen: 6, 5&6; Midscreen crouched: 5, 6; Corner: 6, 5&6, Corner crouched: 5, 6.

Cassie - Midscreen: 5; Midscreen crouched: 5, 5&6; Corner: 5, Corner crouched: 5.

Jacqui - Midscreen: None; Midscreen crouched: None; Corner: None, Corner crouched: None.

Kung Jin - Midscreen: 5; Midscreen crouched: 5, 6; Corner: 5; Corner crouched: 5, 6.

Tanya - Midscreen: None; Midscreen crouched: 5, 6; Corner: None, Corner crouched: 5, 6.

Predator - Midscreen: 5, 6; Midscreen crouched: 5; Corner: 5,6, Corner crouched: 5.

Shinnok - Midscreen: None; Midscreen crouched: 6; Corner: None, Corner crouched: None.

Kano - Midscreen: None; Midscreen crouched: 5, 6; Corner: None, Corner crouched: 5, 6.

Johnny Cage - Midscreen: None6; Midscreen crouched: 5, 5&6; Corner: None, Corner crouched: 5, 5&6.

Erron - Midscreen: None; Midscreen crouched: 5, 6; Corner: None, Corner crouched: 5, 6.

Liu Kang - Midscreen: 5; Midscreen crouched: 5; Corner: 5; Corner crouched: 5.

Ermac - Midscreen: 6; Midscreen crouched: 6; Corner: None; Corner crouched: 6.

Kotal Kahn - Midscreen: 5; Midscreen crouched: 5, 6; Corner: None, Corner crouched: 5, 6.

Reptile - Midscreen: 5, 6; Midscreen crouched: 5, 6; Corner: 5, 6, Corner crouched: 5, 6.

Ferra Torr - Midscreen: None; Midscreen crouched: 5, 6; Corner: None, Corner crouched: 6.

Dvorah - Midscreen: None; Midscreen crouched: 5; Corner: None, Corner crouched: 5.

Raiden - Midscreen: None; Midscreen crouched: 5, 5&6; Corner: None, Corner crouched: 5.

Quan Chi- Midscreen: 6; Midscreen crouched: 5&6 (EVERY TIME!); Corner: None, Corner crouched: 5&6 (EVERY TIME!).

Goro - Midscreen: 5; Midscreen crouched: None; Corner: 5, Corner crouched: None.

Tremor - Midscreen: 5, 5&6; Midscreen crouched: 2!!, 4, 5, 6 (wtf); Corner: 5, Corner crouched: 2!!,5,6.

The extreme cases:

 
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coconutshrimp

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
Why? Just why? How can this variation can get any worse? I'll take a couple nerfs to A-List if Fisticuffs gets compensated very well (I find A-List kinda dull anyways).

1 string and a chip damage buff, which means absolutely nothing because of the nerf to chip damage on normals, does nothing to make it worth a damn.

Fisticuffs should, with speedbag, add a really good threatening mid that starts pressure, not in a jailed block pressure kind of way, but in a way that gives him some sort of scary presence to put some fear and mind games into your opponent. This is especially needed since all this variation does is add a single string and a short chip buff.

But as I said earlier a single string isn't enough to make a variation off of for any character. Fisticuffs needs to get a lot of stuff to be viable in this game.

Speedbag is only useful as a stagger string, and not a very good one since with cage, you can literally stagger anything and you will catch someone with it. I once caught someone with a S3 stagger, keep in mind S3 is -20 on block.
 
coconutshrimp

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
Sorry about that rant there. Just Fisticuffs being so useless for so long is kinda getting to me. I just want to be able to use all 3 variations of a character like I can with Kenshi.
 
Folux182

Folux182

Mortal
I actually noticed this but I could never prove it other than just saying that something weird happened. Good stuff man love your dedication to fisticuffs
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
coconutshrimp said:
Sorry about that rant there. Just Fisticuffs being so useless for so long is kinda getting to me. I just want to be able to use all 3 variations of a character like I can with Kenshi.
Click to expand...
I totally understand you, I have moments like this one you had pretty often thanks to this variation xD
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
I'm preparing a detailed list of the whiffs that happen to speedbag against every character. Because yes, it's different in each case. Impossible to adapt xD
 
Asodimazze

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
Fisticuff is badass, why do you let him rot at the bottom of bottom tier NRS? #notlikethis
 
FoughtDragon01

FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
Error404 said:
Man , give up. It's a shitty variation designed around 1 string that will never be good. It's a shame it has one of the coolest brutalities in the game.
Click to expand...
At this point, the only reason to pick it IS for the brutality. Thing is S-tier.

But seriously, if March 1st is going to be NRS' last major patch save for the obvious balancing of the KP2 characters, they need to do something, ANYTHING, to make the low-tier variations viable in some way. Otherwise, the game'll just feel kinda unfinished, like they just gave up on certain variations because why bother? I'd love it if every character in the game could get at least some usage out of all three of their variations, kinda like Kotal, F/T, and Kenshi.

Again, WHY can't FC get the Flame Fist treatment? You don't even need to throw it a bone. Just give it a generous glance into the buffet area for f@ck's sake. You'd think that after putting up with the BS that was Quan and Lao for damn near a year straight, everyone would finally realize, 'Huh, I guess vanilla Fistis wasn't that bad after all.'
 
lm Tweakk

lm Tweakk

#BuffAntiAirs
coconutshrimp said:
Why? Just why? How can this variation can get any worse? I'll take a couple nerfs to A-List if Fisticuffs gets compensated very well (I find A-List kinda dull anyways).

1 string and a chip damage buff, which means absolutely nothing because of the nerf to chip damage on normals, does nothing to make it worth a damn.

Fisticuffs should, with speedbag, add a really good threatening mid that starts pressure, not in a jailed block pressure kind of way, but in a way that gives him some sort of scary presence to put some fear and mind games into your opponent. This is especially needed since all this variation does is add a single string and a short chip buff.

But as I said earlier a single string isn't enough to make a variation off of for any character. Fisticuffs needs to get a lot of stuff to be viable in this game.

Speedbag is only useful as a stagger string, and not a very good one since with cage, you can literally stagger anything and you will catch someone with it. I once caught someone with a S3 stagger, keep in mind S3 is -20 on block.
Click to expand...
Don't ask to get A-list nerfed just because you don't play it. And also , there was a universal chip nerf ? I don't recall
 
FoughtDragon01

FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
lm Tweakk said:
Don't ask to get A-list nerfed just because you don't play it. And also , there was a universal chip nerf ? I don't recall
Click to expand...
In the beta, if you look at the amount of damage moves do on block, it's all lower than what they currently do in the full game. I suppose it's their answer to the complaints about the insane amounts of chip characters like FF Lui Kang could achieve.
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
@colt

Updated the op with a detailed test on every character in case it is useful.

There are many different situations. The most extreme ones are Quan (where both 5th & 6th hits ALWAYS whiff when he is crouching), or Tremor (that can even make the 2nd hit whiff). Also added a video of these two particular cases.
 
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Asodimazze

Asodimazze

https://twitter.com/AlfioZacco
ismael4790 said:
@colt

Updated the op with a detailed test on every character in case it is useful.

There are many different situations. The most extreme ones are Quan (where both 5th & 6th hits ALWAYS whiff when he is crouching), or Tremor (that can even make the 2nd hit whiff). Also added a video of these two particular cases.
Click to expand...
Tremor crouch blocking hitbox is just broken, JC 11 will always whiff (midscreen and in corner too) and 12 whiffs most of the time too
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Asodimazze said:
Tremor crouch blocking hitbox is just broken, JC 11 will always whiff (midscreen and in corner too) and 12 whiffs most of the time too
Click to expand...
The big problem here is that the whiffs seem total random. I have lost many matches getting hit by an opponent poke that shouldn't have come out. You can't adapt to this. If one knows that certain string always whiffs, then you never use it and it's over. But we can't not use the signature move of a variation xD

Speedbag hits whiff some times, and other times not, and the whiffing pattern is different for every character, which is absolute madness, specially considering this string is THE string of this variation. It should work much better. Hope it is fixed in march. It's not only that the current frames make the string just average, it's also this annoying inconsistency...
 
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Matador Fiend

Matador Fiend

Kombatant
I fought a Kitana yesterday and and when she was crouch blocking, speedbag would whiff after the second blocked hit at hugging range. I dont know if this is stance specific or what, but it happened more than once and made me pick a new character for the set.....
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
Matador Fiend said:
I fought a Kitana yesterday and and when she was crouch blocking, speedbag would whiff after the second blocked hit at hugging range. I dont know if this is stance specific or what, but it happened more than once and made me pick a new character for the set.....
Click to expand...
I tested it again in practice mode and it seems it's the same as before. Anyway, I feel you, the move is extremely unreliable, as you see in the list above.
 
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