Specials Giving Safe Wake-up Pressure

[HurlingDervish]

Are there many in the game? I thought Ermac's enhanced TKP affected enemies wakeup attacks, but I'm curious if there's any others. I've been looking for some, but have had no luck so far, in-game, and on this site.

Wake-up attacks are such a powerful mechanic, you'd think we'd have more strategies to beat them. Or maybe I just suck.

Well, besides specials theres always grounding the opponent on their feet like Sonya/Skarlet's 112, Ermac's f4, Kabal's 4

Since the specials are probably a myth maybe we could make a list of other grounding strings

 

[ChopChop Ninja]

Noob's df3 in some situations

 

[Somberness]

Well, if I want to be extremely tight about the definition of safe, than I would say both shadow flash and shadow glow are the only truly safe moves in the game period, only because you can block right after usage. Anything else you can either be crossed up, damaged, or punished for using.

 

[HurlingDervish]

Well, if I want to be extremely tight about the definition of safe, than I would say both shadow flash and shadow glow are the only truly safe moves in the game period, only because you can block right after usage. Anything else you can either be crossed up, damaged, or punished for using.

I think you misinterpreted it a tiny bit. I don't mean wake up attacks, I mean moves that disable the ability to use wake-up attacks after being knocked down by it.

 

[Somberness]

Ermac's enhanced push does allow for wake up attacks though... I don't think there is anything meeting that criteria.

 

[STORMS]

Ermac's enhanced push does allow for wake up attacks though... I don't think there is anything meeting that criteria.

Well, that is also questionable... the range that force push has wouldn't it automatically punish a wakeup attack if Ermac is half way across the screen? Then again, that defeats the purpose of even doing a wakeup... I just contradicted myself, lmao. :facepalm:

 

[THTB]

Reptile's EX slow forceball allows Reptile to walk into a number of wakeup attacks, get hit, and still punish the opponent for using them, if spaced properly.

 

[SektorCyrax]

im pretty sure some normal strings can interrupt wake up attacks if thats what you mean..

like cyraxs 33 can shut down sub zeros wake up game from what ive read.


on a side note..

* ive always thought it was a good idea to have a special move have an ability to make the opponent not perform wake up attacks.

like noobs exshadowcharge when the clone punches them on the ground it should deny them of any wake up attacks.

all hypothetical though, those moves should cost a bar of meter.

 

[RamenO]

I think this type of question depends on the character you use(I guess then it depends on the character forum). In which case, what character do you use?

I know Shang has great wake up pressure with up skull.

 

[HurlingDervish]

Ermac's enhanced push does allow for wake up attacks though... I don't think there is anything meeting that criteria.

That's weird, I could have sworn that I heard/saw it stops wake up attacks altogether. I don't remember what I originally heard it from, I thought it was something like STBL, but I guess I'm tripping.
The AI does do a wake up every time....but then again, practice mode isn't really the best way to find out. I guess at the very least its delaying the window that they would perceive to have the chance to use a wakeup attack, which could lead to mashing, or an accidental roll/block. But all that's out the window once they figure it out.

@THTB
Yea, that'll do the trick, haha. I might have to play more reptile.


@storms
oh boy, you linked this thread. I better get my flame suit, I'm gonna have to scrub it off first.

 

[Somberness]

It prevents you from doing a recovery roll, probably got that confused.

 

[Zerosoulreaver]

I know Sindel's low ex fb can stop many wake-ups but it depends on the move. I know it stops many wake-up teleports. It can be very close to an OTG attack if timed correctly.

 

[Robotic]

Though it does not apply to the prerequisites, I should mention that Sektor's flame thrower combo-ender leaves the opponent standing and unable to perform a wake-up since they were never knocked down to begin with. Flame thrower will sometimes add a percentage point to the combo, depending on the combo. At any rate, depending on the matchup, you may not want to knock down your opponent and leave him standing. I know it's pretty specific, but just some food for thought.

 

[cabibi]

I stuff wake ups with smoke's EX smoke bomb all the time. Especially When noob wakes up with a shadow kick to stop cross ups. You just have to work on the spacing with each character, so you're not too far away where you telegraph that you're going to try and stuff it, but you're not too close to where you actually get hit by it. You just have to be aware of all of your opponent's character's options.

 

[FatalTragedy]

Though it does not apply to the prerequisites, I should mention that Sektor's flame thrower combo-ender leaves the opponent standing and unable to perform a wake-up since they were never knocked down to begin with. Flame thrower will sometimes add a percentage point to the combo, depending on the combo. At any rate, depending on the matchup, you may not want to knock down your opponent and leave him standing. I know it's pretty specific, but just some food for thought.

I like punching nuts.

 

[Audit]

Though it does not apply to the prerequisites, I should mention that Sektor's flame thrower combo-ender leaves the opponent standing and unable to perform a wake-up since they were never knocked down to begin with. Flame thrower will sometimes add a percentage point to the combo, depending on the combo. At any rate, depending on the matchup, you may not want to knock down your opponent and leave him standing. I know it's pretty specific, but just some food for thought.

I hadn't really connected the dots that the flame thrower was a standing reset, but it's probably been done to me hundreds of times LOL.

I made this video right when the game came out, it's a combo ender (f+3, 1+2) that possibly denies a wakeup opportunity to your opponent:

The damage is different, as this was capped on v1.00, but I'm pretty sure it still applies. Reptile's "upball", the 1+2 part for the last hit, doesn't actually combo midscreen. If it hits it's unscaled damage (so the combo in the video is really ~36%, in V1.02 I think it's ~34%) but the opponent can block. If they do block it, they're left in a standing position (duh) without the chance for a wakeup. However, I'm pretty sure Reptile is at about the same frame deficit as a blocked dash, so I don't even know how useful it is and I don't really play Reptile anyway.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible to delay a wakeup a little? I'm not talking after a rec roll, but just by a few frames after the stand up animation begins? There's been a few times that I've thought that I found something had priority over a certain wakeup, but have later decided it's because they're not getting their wakeup special off as early as possible. Ultimately I think it's better to play to go into the match with the mindset of using mind games and bait a wakeup for punish. It's about the same risk for more reward.

 

[SektorCyrax]

I hadn't really connected the dots that the flame thrower was a standing reset, but it's probably been done to me hundreds of times LOL.

I made this video right when the game came out, it's a combo ender (f+3, 1+2) that possibly denies a wakeup opportunity to your opponent:

The damage is different, as this was capped on v1.00, but I'm pretty sure it still applies. Reptile's "upball", the 1+2 part for the last hit, doesn't actually combo midscreen. If it hits it's unscaled damage (so the combo in the video is really ~36%, in V1.02 I think it's ~34%) but the opponent can block. If they do block it, they're left in a standing position (duh) without the chance for a wakeup. However, I'm pretty sure Reptile is at about the same frame deficit as a blocked dash, so I don't even know how useful it is and I don't really play Reptile anyway.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it possible to delay a wakeup a little? I'm not talking after a rec roll, but just by a few frames after the stand up animation begins? There's been a few times that I've thought that I found something had priority over a certain wakeup, but have later decided it's because they're not getting their wakeup special off as early as possible. Ultimately I think it's better to play to go into the match with the mindset of using mind games and bait a wakeup for punish. It's about the same risk for more reward.

yeah you dont want to do that with reptile..they can block and i think its unsafe on block..just end the combo with a forceball so you can apply pressure and at least get some good chip damage.

 

[SwiftTomHanks]

I'm not sure about every wake up in the game, but Sektor's TU (even when EXed) is horrible when your opponent is close to you. People are saying it's the one of the best wake ups in the game, however any character's low pokes will stuff it. It also seems that low pokes stuff more wake-ups.

It's such an unclear game mechanic that I despise. People say that wake-ups have invisibility frames, yet why does someone's d4 have priority?

 

[Dizzy]

I'm not sure about every wake up in the game, but Sektor's TU (even when EXed) is horrible when your opponent is close to you. People are saying it's the one of the best wake ups in the game, however any character's low pokes will stuff it. It also seems that low pokes stuff more wake-ups.

It's such an unclear game mechanic that I despise. People say that wake-ups have invisibility frames, yet why does someone's d4 have priority?

Wake-up attacks have 7 frames of invincibility (this is the number i've heard), most characters wake up attacks don't become active, meaning allowing you to deal damage to your opponent, until after the invinciblity has worn off. An exceptions to this is KL spin (starts up in 6 frames) and probably a few others.

Characters with 8 or more frames of startup on their wake-up attacks (i.e. 90% of the characters in this game) would be prone to being hit out of their wake-up attack by an extremely well placed meaty attack.

If I were to attempt a wake-up flip kick with Johnny Cage, you would have a 2-frame window of opportunity to place an attack that would knock me out of this animation.

Sektor TU on wake-up would get beat by just about any low meaty attack unless it was timed horribly. It just takes way to long to start up to be a good wake-up option.

 

[Scoot Magee]

Yeah thats why reptiles D+4 xx acid hand works so well against grounded opponents.

 

[Robotic]

Wake-up attacks have 7 frames of invincibility (this is the number i've heard), most characters wake up attacks don't become active, meaning allowing you to deal damage to your opponent, until after the invinciblity has worn off. An exceptions to this is KL spin (starts up in 6 frames) and probably a few others.

Characters with 8 or more frames of startup on their wake-up attacks (i.e. 90% of the characters in this game) would be prone to being hit out of their wake-up attack by an extremely well placed meaty attack.

If I were to attempt a wake-up flip kick with Johnny Cage, you would have a 2-frame window of opportunity to place an attack that would knock me out of this animation.

Sektor TU on wake-up would get beat by just about any low meaty attack unless it was timed horribly. It just takes way to long to start up to be a good wake-up option.

Tell that to Tom Brady - he is under the impression that EXTU is the best wakeup attack in the game. Unless he knows something I don't (highly likely), I have to disagree. Yes, EXTU is awesome and completely safe on block, IF YOU ARE ABLE TO GET IT OFF. What good is a wakeup attack if I can be hit out of the start up? I can't tell you how many times I've tried EXTU, burned meter, only to get hit out of the start up and stay in the corner. Maybe this is one of those rare instances for Sektor where if your opponent is relentless in keeping you in the corner and you have full meter, it may be not be unreasonable to X-ray your ass up outta there?

 

[Jim]

This is an interesting topic but I feel like people are having 3 different conversations and making it a bit confusing. Seems to me these are the topics and we should really make sure we are talking about the right when so players know what we mean.


1. OP was asking are there any moves that knock the opponent to the ground preventing the opponent from executing a wake-up attack? If there are any moves like this do we know them, I know of none.

2. When an opponent performs a wake-up attack what moves punish the attack? I know this one is character specific for both players and there may not always be a punish for a wake-up. Daggerfall addresses this:
Wake-up attacks have 7 frames of invincibility (this is the number i've heard), most characters wake up attacks don't become active, meaning allowing you to deal damage to your opponent, until after the invinciblity has worn off. An exceptions to this is KL spin (starts up in 6 frames) and probably a few others.

3. What wake-up attacks to use when you are knocked down.


Maybe I'm spelling out the obvious but from reading the other replies it seemed like some people were talking about completely different situations and may not have realized it.

 

[Konqrr]

1. OP was asking are there any moves that knock the opponent to the ground preventing the opponent from executing a wake-up attack? If there are any moves like this do we know them, I know of none.

If you are on the ground and you did not hold down to remain laying, then you can do a wakeup attack that has the invincibility. The only attacks that prevent this are ones that force you to stand like Kabal/Baraka's f4 attack or Sektor's Flame.

I'm not sure about every wake up in the game, but Sektor's TU (even when EXed) is horrible when your opponent is close to you. People are saying it's the one of the best wake ups in the game, however any character's low pokes will stuff it. It also seems that low pokes stuff more wake-ups.

It's such an unclear game mechanic that I despise. People say that wake-ups have invisibility frames, yet why does someone's d4 have priority?

http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?3075-Mortal-Kombat-(2011)-Matchup-Chart&p=90676&viewfull=1#post90676

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

just for record moves that stuff WAKEUPS:

NW f3 <---major
Liu b3 <---major

These are the two most dominant moves in the game IMO and from experience.

Characters like ermac have NO CHANCE IN HELL doing a wakeup on these moves