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Match-up Discussion Sonya

4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Warrior
I know there's a match-up thread, but the Raiden forum is dead so I thought I'd make a thread to discuss what's arguably Raiden's worst mu.

Divekick is a nightmare. The auto-correct makes teleporting really dangerous and it makes anti-air difficult. Even on block it's harder than it's 20 frame recovery should be to punish because she gets pushed back and hangs in the air.

ExCartwheel, her ridiculous d4, and the fast recovery on her projectile aren't good news in this match-up either. What does the thunder god have to keep this match even?
 
Chaosphere

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
You can't go teleport crazy. Block all of her dive kicks. You can punish with superman every time instead of trying to full combo punish. You just have to accept the lower damage. Get her to stop dive kicking. That's the only way you can play your game. You can also ex-shocker through a dive kick if you make a good read. Run away. Throw lightning balls from full screen if you can... just don't get into a projectile trading match because she'll win. If you read her fireball from full screen you can teleport and get a combo or at least a little bit of pressure.

Other than that, you realllly need to know how to block all of her pressure. You can teleport if she does a string... just make sure she's not going for a dive kick. It's a tough match but not unwinnable by any means.

Sent from my DROID2 GLOBAL using Tapatalk 2
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Warrior
Punishing divekicks with superman sucks. It's easy, but you can block and punish 4 of them and if she lands the 5th she's taken more more life than you.
It doesn't help that it's not that hard to land a divekick. I've had her divekick straight through a b312 string and it can knock you out of superman(at least she can't combo off that). And it's fast enough that you can't really block on reaction, so you almost have to block every time she jumps.

Is there anything particularly good to try when you teleport as she cancels into MS after a block string? A lot of the time she'll whiff a f1 or something, but most of the MS attacks recover fast enough and put her far enough away that you can't blow it up. B312 isn't effective because d4 knocks you out of it

The only good thing about this match is that it's easy to stay out. If you get a life lead and decide to stay full screen she can't do much about it. Sometimes playing that way even when you don't have the life lead will frustrate her and make it easier to get a read that gives you the life lead.
 
Chaosphere

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
Punishing dive kick with superman is all you can do and you have to accept it. It's kind of like fighting Kung Lao... when he teleports... sure you can possibly get a d1 juggle or a standing 1 juggle depending on if he does instant 3 or delayed 3... but it's safer to just go for uppercut everytime... sometimes you can even link in superman for 21%. But it WILL stop him from doing it. Just like punishing her blocked dive kick every time will stop her from doing it. If you do it 3 or 4 times, like you said... then you most likely have a life lead already and then you run away.

It's a tough match, but it's not THAT bad. You can counterpick... but if you're trying to Raiden it up... it's still winnable. Bwizz should be in here... he has played morty a lot.
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Warrior
This match up isn't nearly bad enough to counter pick. Haha, besides, my Kenshi is garbage. Even if it were bad enough that you'd want to counterpick at a tournament or something that doesn't mean the match up isn't worth discussing.

You've got a point about getting the lead from a superman punish. 10% lead is enough start playing a turtle style that's going to make life hard for her, so the risk/reward on a divekick isn't as bad as it seems.
Even if you presume she's going to divekick everytime and just block whenever she jumps the worst that can happen is she does jip in a throw or a block string into MS. A throw is only 12% if you don't break it and Raiden doesn't particularly care if she goes into MS. That's worth no more divekicks. I'm just impatient and want to be able to blow her up.
 
B W1zZ

B W1zZ

Warrior
Sonya is Raiden's absolute worst matchup, worse than fighting against Kabal (which I consider his only 2 legitimately bad matchups because both characters are broken as fuck). The teleport nerf essentially turned this into a bad matchup where it used to be completely even. It is essentially Raiden's equivalent of Kitana Vs Kenshi. As far as punishing dive kick with superman I usually just go for a quick throw since it eliminates the possibility of timing the superman too late and eating a full combo, or you can choose to F24, D4, B3 throw etc. However if you block a dive kick that isn't a safe IADK then you can full combo punish, assuming your reactions are quick enough. I consider this matchup bad because the Raiden player essentially has to stay 3 steps ahead of Sonya, where the Sonya player doesn't have to work nearly as hard.

Sonya's D4 is a big problem because it out ranges every one of Raiden's normals. One tactic is to space/dashblock in and out of D4 range to bait her into whiffing one and superman punishing. Overall most of the match you want to stay away from the bitch and make CALCULATED teleports, supermans, and projectiles, meaning when you read she is going to throw rings teleporting or en teleporting the split second of the ring startup or EN supermanning through it.

You also have to be mindful of her meter because of string gaps. Sonya can interrupt Raiden's strings with cartwheel HOWEVER, Raiden can teleport to escape the cartwheel. For example, 33 (En Cartwheel) 4 (cancel the 4 into tele or en shocker), and the same applies for B3(here)1(here)2, depending on where you read your opponent will attempt an interrupt.

Be mindful of sonya's advantage. Off of a 114 MS (F1 or any other followup) there is a small gap allowing you to teleport and escape her pressure/possibly whiff punish her. However off of her 321 string followed by MS you will be unable to teleport out of her pressure.

If sonya gets dive kick happy say afer a blocked 334 (attempting to punish a poke) you can backdash causing her to whiff it and full combo punish.

Overall I would say this matchup needs to be played very carefully and defensively, but at the same time very calculated. You have to really get inside your oppoenent's head to be successful.
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Warrior
How do you combo punish divekick?

It's hard to practice without another person, so my only experimentation has been in matches. It seems like after you block it she bounces back to about sweep distance away from you, then hangs in the air a second and lands. It's hard to react to because the divekick happens so fast and even when I do manage to dash forward and try something it always gets blocked. Is the dash necessary? I could be misjudging how far away she it. Or am I just flat out reacting too slowly?
I will definitely try the throw, though. I should be able to pull that off, and it's slightly better damage and less punishable than superman.

D4 was causing me a lot of problems last time I played. The worst is when I get stuffed out of b312 after an enhanced teleport because he can just mash d4 and hit me even when he was expecting me on the other side.
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
i can run away and play footsies vs sonya, i cant run away from kung lao id rather play sonya than lao. often i can block dive kick after tele or it wont always auto correct and if i just walk backwards on her jumps i can whiff punish, dont stand there and anti-air.

imo raidens bad matchups are
kenshi 4-6 (same as reptile, if he doesnt risk punishment everytime with shoulder then my options are nill)
sonya 4-6 (3.5-6.5...i cant turtle my ass off)
cage 4-6 (ive argued this is 5-5 before but he punishes awful hard and i dont want exchange block strings with him... on the fence with this)
reptile 4-6 (i cant play footsies!!! if he doesnt risk being punished for tryign to punish with dash every time then i have no options)
kung lao 3-7(i cant play footsies)
kabal 3-7 (he has too much recovery builds meter and outfootsies me with dash and gas blast)
sektor 4-6 (dat hitbox... i cant amount offense vs 6 frame jab nor punish reliably)
liu kang 4-6 (i cant punish for enough damage his strings are too good)
 
Justice

Justice

Warrior
4x4lo8o said:
Punishing divekicks with superman sucks. It's easy, but you can block and punish 4 of them and if she lands the 5th she's taken more more life than you.
Click to expand...
Well, it's really not about what sucks, it's about what will get you the win, expecially in a bad matchup. A Dive Kick that hits above the waist is pretty much full combo punishable for most of the cast. I'm not sure about Raiden but I'm sure more knowledgeable Raiden players can tell you about this. Dive Kicks that hit lower are pretty safe for Sonya since the bounce angle is different and she lands farther away from her opponet.

If you let Sonya get within jump distance, you have to carefully consider your options and decide between offence or defence. If you let her within Sweep distance, it's full on "please dear God let her fuck up" defence. Outside of jump distance, Sonya has few options:
  1. Arc Kick
  2. Rings
  3. Dash Block
Plan your strategies accordingly ;)
 
4x4lo8o

4x4lo8o

Warrior
Man, people are quoting my requests for match up advice from 5 months ago. I'm bad at this game, but not bad enough that I can't figure how to punish divekick in that timespan :(
 
Chaosphere

Chaosphere

The Free Meter Police
4x4lo8o said:
Man, people are quoting my requests for match up advice from 5 months ago. I'm bad at this game, but not bad enough that I can't figure how to punish divekick in that timespan :(
Click to expand...
Pssshh. I know you know Raiden. That's all the confirmation you need. /selfrighteous
 
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