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Sindel General Discussion

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Can someone enlighten me as to why it's broke, are they just salty because Sonic is oppressive with her like he is with so many characters or am I missing something?
Check out the link that BapeCry posted. Also check out Sonic Fox's Twitch from yesterday. He discusses his tier list and shows the tech in training mode. Then he plays the mirror match against Koisy.

Sonic Fox exaggerates and can be mistaken about a character like any other player. However, that vortex looks strong and I think he is right about Sindel's tier placement, at least for the time being.
 
Check out the link that BapeCry posted. Also check out Sonic Fox's Twitch from yesterday. He discusses his tier list and shows the tech in training mode. Then he plays the mirror match against Koisy.

Sonic Fox exaggerates and can be mistaken about a character like any other player. However, that vortex looks strong and I think he is right about Sindel's tier placement, at least for the time being.
Let me look
 
Looking at Dragons tech, it looks like the “brokeness” comes from her getting a HTB “no armor, backdash, or d2” vortex knockdown on top of the neutral HTBs.


As a Johnny main (who doesn’t use Lao) though, it’s been funny to see Sindel mains like Koisy & their fans complain about base kit Johnnys pressure bc of Lao only for people to discover her gameplan with Lao revolves around zoning + HTB pressure in neutral and on knockdown :/.
Check out the link that BapeCry posted. Also check out Sonic Fox's Twitch from yesterday. He discusses his tier list and shows the tech in training mode. Then he plays the mirror match against Koisy.

Sonic Fox exaggerates and can be mistaken about a character like any other player. However, that vortex looks strong and I think he is right about Sindel's tier placement, at least for the time being.
Ok I see now, it's a setup that covers all wakeup options and if float is timed differently like waiting in float you can JIP on their delay wakeup(that's a read) but the rest of that is pretty strong.
I'm asking Dragon what he thinks about adjustments. I already talked with Xombat and he says he doesn't want Sindel nerfed, it's Lao hat causing the broke setups.
He said he wants Lao hat to still function the same but make charged hat take longer to recover so it's not vortex which is a present with several characters.
This is just a knockdown setup to armor break on wakeup. I do this with Rain+Lao/Jax cuz he has whirlpool acting like hat on wakeup. You get them in corner and it's a vortex, it's possible midscreen but much harder with Rain, involves a Jump Cancel Kombo into Charged Water Beam with strict timing.

So I imagine Dragon wants the same as Xombat because Xombat is basically Sonics sparing partner. But I think they just asking for Lao hat to be longer on charge which I'm completely fine with. I just don't want Sindel nerfed because she is absolutely not S with her base kit or with many other Kameos. But that's definitely strong and I understand now, I just wasn't aware they found a perfect timing to loop it like that. Her cancels usually made me make it after their wakeup I think 5 frames late or more.
 
Update, now that I have timing perfect, I don't think it's broke. High level players should be able to fuzzy this. I'm doing it identical to his video and it does stuff jump, armor, backdash but you do have to make the read for delay wakeup unless Sonic is that godliKe.



But more importantly it seems to me there's only one timing to stuff every option but delay wakeup. Correct me if I'm wrong it only goes low to overhead with that timing.

Obviously a good player would hit confirm into scream after HTB attempt but I had it on record so I could get a tightest possible HTB link (3 frames apart) anything tighter is Auto Blocked by the HTB protection mechanic.
I can consistently fuzzy it dare I say every time after I beat it into muscle memory and the setup from that combo is so long you know what's coming a year away especially after F4-Set Lao Hat.
@BapeCry @M2Dave
Are you able to make it Low to overhead then overhead to low on next setup while still covering: backdash/jump/armor and making read on delay wakeup?
There is a tiny window to JIP and I'm doing it damn near instantly to hit exactly on their wakeup and I can't get JIP first into low hat and still stuff wakeup. It's like the hat is what facilitates armor break


Nevermind, so you can't do Overhead to Low with JIP 1/2 but you can with JIK.
It's really strong.
So definitely add Regen delay to charged low hat. Sounds fair
 
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Moms4lif3

Bruh.
I saw where Sonic placed Sindel on the tier list and instantly knew it was mainly because of Lao Hat - I play Sindel since day one and have never played Lao kameo, but I always thought she might be up there with him, especially because she gets even faster recharge with her Kameo buff... its pretty crazy, every touch turns into a HTB, the armor break on top is disgusting ... I really hope she doesnt get changed now people caught on :/ I also wonder where Sonic wouldve placed her if Lao hat wasnt there/got nerfed

one of the reasons I never played Lao Kameo is that I thought it was gonna get nerfed soon... also I personally dont like Lao much as a character in general, Jax and Stryker are my jam
 
I saw where Sonic placed Sindel on the tier list and instantly knew it was mainly because of Lao Hat - I play Sindel since day one and have never played Lao kameo, but I always thought she might be up there with him, especially because she gets even faster recharge with her Kameo buff... its pretty crazy, every touch turns into a HTB, the armor break on top is disgusting ... I really hope she doesnt get changed now people caught on :/ I also wonder where Sonic wouldve placed her if Lao hat wasnt there/got nerfed

one of the reasons I never played Lao Kameo is that I thought it was gonna get nerfed soon... also I personally dont like Lao much as a character in general, Jax and Stryker are my jam
If they listen to Sonic, XombatNV, RewindNV, Ninjakilla, and Dragon then they will only slightly nerf the charged Lao hat so it can't be looped.
Sonic said he wants Cyrax to be changed so he is back to how he was but with different changes
 
Ok I've done more labbing and I've found a few things about Sindel's HTB Vortex dragon showed.
The JIP HTB can only be done Low to Overhead.
JIK can hit overhead to low but requires wave dashing into F1xxScream wavedash into B23 F4/ender but JIK ruins juggle gravity and doesn't work the same as combos with JI1/2.
JIK HTB can't be looped the way JIP can to be a vortex so if you need 3 touches with Sindel to win. The first two have to be JIP, meaning you fuzzy low to overhead and it's not very hard, it's a 3 frame window. So much easier than MKX Summoner Quan.

To be clear I'm saying you can't JIP overhead to low HTB if you want the timing to break armor, prevent backdash, jump and D2 like Dragon showed.
JIK comes out and is active much lower and hits faster at same timing as the armor break but juggles different and doesn't get the long combo required for gaining back Charged Lao Hat mid combo.

So unless someone has a way to stuff all wakeup options with JIK and still juggle long enough to have charged Lao back I don't see what's so incredibly broke.
Omni-Man, Rain, Mileena and pretty much every character can loop HTB and time it to stuff wakeup options.
Even if they can't gain Lao hat back many have armor break moves to take turn back and do it again.
I know at least 3 characters can Vortex HTB because they have enough knockdown advantage with certain specials, strings or Ariel strings that allow them to get JIP exactly on wakeup and juggle long enough to get Lao hat back which is the same speed as regular hat

On top of this if I time JIK to hit first while covering all wakeup options, you have to do a early JIK that covers them but half the time only breaks the armor, doesn't get the combo with armor break:

I can do it earlier and combo but it only combos if it's actually a 2 frame HTB that would automatically block if they attempted to fuzzy instead of wakeup Armor.
It's incredibly dumb to have to try to get 3f HTB down into muscle memory then somehow adjust to 2F HTB setup.

Does anyone know to juggle off the Vortex HTB setup using JIK hitting first but also timing hat to hit exactly on wakeup frame one but doing a long enough combo that ends in F4 Lao hat setup that allows Charged Lao Hat to come back mid combo?

The only one I've seen Dragon do is JIP HTB hitting low first and that does allow you to loop but like I said it's easily fuzzyable.
If y'all can find a way to juggle longer from JIK and end with F4xxLao then this is very strong.
Maybe I'm just missing something or my brain is rotted but for whatever reason I can't get JIK first and juggle cuz the limitations on combo ability after JIK's, it prevents her from doing several BnBs that she can do with JIP
 
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Ray'sGoodLiquor

I don't care I'm not a competitive player anymore
I think Sindel might be the best character in the game for survival nodes in invasion. She has an air/low projectile and can hover in the air. I max out her health and it gets me through all the survival nodes I can't do reliably.
 

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
I just stack 100% elemental invulnerablity by buying the +50% item that spawns now and then at the collector. Then just switch to a char with base 50% to play that one node... And go afk
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
I've been exploring Sindel/Frost lately. Ice Carpet obviously good move, useful in counter zoning but also allows you to make full use of Scream's restand at the end of combos.

B23~Snowflakes is kind of a thing, I think it's slightly minus when done without combogravity and you don't need to do a bunch of launches to set it up. Just a nice safe way to pressure the opponent with Snowflake while staying safe, I think you can enforce some mindgames especially if the opponent has slower armor or you are willing to armor yourself