Breakthrough - Scorpion Scorpion whiffing issues vs Ermac

[Ze Dingo]

I have absolutely no words. I'll let the video do the talking. It's about 10 seconds long.

@YOMI RM JagoBlake @JTB123 @STRYKIE @Hor_PeT @JINAMOUNAINAI @Crathen

And finally.

@colt @16 Bit

 

[Youphemism]

I knew you could run and make teleport whiff but LOL at slide whiffing.

 

[REO]

It's because the game has true 3D Models and hurtboxes similar to games like Tekken and the 3D MKs. If your character lifts their foot up while doing an attack, any character who does a mid or low attack that specifically targets that spot where the characters foot was raised, will make the attack whiff.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about:

Many 2D fighters have hurtbox extension on a lot of attacks to prevent an overabundance of variable hitbox and hurtbox issues. They also have hurtbox extensions on a lot of RANGED attacks to prevent unfair advantages since there are no side steps in 2D fighters, which almost every 3D fighter has - to combat and counter such attacks.

 

[Scott The Scot]

Character's f***ed lol.

 

[STRYKIE]

Now if Scorpion had a better wakeup this wouldnt be a problem

#MakeInfernoEXMovesNotPointlessInKP3

 

[thlityoursloat]

Now if Scorpion had a better wakeup this wouldnt be a problem

#MakeInfernoEXMovesNotPointlessInKP3

If Scorpion has the worst wakeups in the game, then what does Erron Black have? And Quan Chi?

 

[STRYKIE]

If Scorpion has the worst wakeups in the game, then what does Erron Black have? And Quan Chi?

Quan has Warlock, Erron has an armored command grab and a true armored combo starter in Outlaw, one that isn't tied to a bogus "mechanic" that doesn't actually exist.

For the record I didn't say Scorpion has the worst wakeups in the game. I personally think that distinction currently belongs to D'vorah. My beef is that there's never really been an adequate explanation as to what's in Scorpion's offense that warrants such a compromised wakeup game.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Quan has Warlock, Erron has an armored command grab and a true armored combo starter in Outlaw, one that isn't tied to a bogus "mechanic" that doesn't actually exist.

For the record I didn't say Scorpion has the worst wakeups in the game. I personally think that distinction currently belongs to D'vorah. My beef is that there's never really been an adequate explanation as to what's in Scorpion's offense that warrants such a compromised wakeup game.

Erron's command grab is 13f and can be low profiled as it hits high. Scorpion's EX slide is not a bad wakeup anymore, it's 11f, low profiles extremely quickly and is +14 on hit. It's -30.. yeah, but its recovery keeps him in a low profile state. EX teleport also isn't all that bad lol, yea it's 21f but it moves his hitbox so far back and has a mixup game to it.

I don't see what's wrong with his offense either, he has the ability to be +22 in hellfire for no meter..

I'd rather they focus on Inferno specific sucky things, and other trash characters like Kenshi and UB sub.

 

[STRYKIE]

Erron's command grab is 13f and can be low profiled as it hits high. Scorpion's EX slide is not a bad wakeup anymore, it's 11f, low profiles extremely quickly and is +14 on hit. It's -30.. yeah, but its recovery keeps him in a low profile state. EX teleport also isn't all that bad lol, yea it's 21f but it moves his hitbox so far back and has a mixup game to it.

I don't see what's wrong with his offense either, he has the ability to be +22 in hellfire for no meter..

I'd rather they focus on Inferno specific sucky things, and other trash characters like Kenshi and UB sub.

EX tele on wakeup has tracking issues and can be jab OS'd, generally meaning you can check him with your fastest normal and still block it in time.

EX Takedown happens to low profile some things better than others, it's not a true high crush ala Ninjutsu's B4.

Being +22 from a false blockstring could make sense on paper as to why his wakeups were made sub-par, but then you look at Johnny Cage and pull a Nick Young reaction.

But besides all that, my original post in this thread was already alluding to Inferno exclusively being given better wakeups being good enough for us.

 

[Rocket]

Now i have an excuse for nausea handing my ass to me, thanks.

 

[thlityoursloat]

EX tele on wakeup has tracking issues and can be jab OS'd, generally meaning you can check him with your fastest normal and still block it in time.

EX Takedown happens to low profile some things better than others, it's not a true high crush ala Ninjutsu's B4.

Being +22 from a false blockstring could make sense on paper as to why his wakeups were made sub-par, but then you look at Johnny Cage and pull a Nick Young reaction.

But besides all that, my original post in this thread was already alluding to Inferno exclusively being given better wakeups being good enough for us.

Fair enough.
Johnny Cage needs to get fucked in the next patch btw. If there's a move that deserves to be -30, it's EX nutpunch.

 

[Ze Dingo]

It's because the game has true 3D Models and hurtboxes similar to games like Tekken and the 3D MKs.

Yeah, I figured this was the cause.

I'm so done.

 

[ando1184]

It's because the game has true 3D Models and hurtboxes similar to games like Tekken and the 3D MKs. If your character lifts their foot up while doing an attack, any character who does a mid or low attack that specifically targets that spot where the characters foot was raised, will make the attack whiff.

Here is an example of what I'm talking about:

Many 2D fighters have hurtbox extension on a lot of attacks to prevent an overabundance of variable hitbox and hurtbox issues. They also have hurtbox extensions on a lot of RANGED attacks to prevent unfair advantages since there are no side steps in 2D fighters, which almost every 3D fighter has - to combat and counter such attacks.

So in other words, NRS needs to catch up to this concept.....

 

[omooba]

Erron's command grab is 13f and can be low profiled as it hits high. Scorpion's EX slide is not a bad wakeup anymore, it's 11f, low profiles extremely quickly and is +14 on hit. It's -30.. yeah, but its recovery keeps him in a low profile state. EX teleport also isn't all that bad lol, yea it's 21f but it moves his hitbox so far back and has a mixup game to it.

I don't see what's wrong with his offense either, he has the ability to be +22 in hellfire for no meter..

I'd rather they focus on Inferno specific sucky things, and other trash characters like Kenshi and UB sub.

dude both erron and quan chi as a character have better wake up options than scorpion. this isn't even an argument

 

[thlityoursloat]

dude both erron and quan chi as a character have better wake up options than scorpion. this isn't even an argument

Explain.
EB's slide is worse than Takeout is every possible way, command grab is a good wakeup no doubt but I don't believe it's better than taekout, and please don't mention Outlaw's 18f -22 launching armor that scales like dogshit.

 

[omooba]

Explain.
EB's slide is worse than Takeout is every possible way, command grab is a good wakeup no doubt but I don't believe it's better than taekout, and please don't mention Outlaw's 18f -22 launching armor that scales like dogshit.

scorpions options are: both extremely punishable and not particularly fast
erron black options: not particularly fast but gets to choose between launching ,speed and range. And it's basically a 50/50 on wake up

 

[nathancorsini]

Ermac needs it.

 

[Ze Dingo]

Ermac needs it.

I hope you step on a Lego.

 

[TyCarter35]

Scorpion's wakeup game is already wack enough. Boon needs to buff his wakeups and ninjutsu could use another armored special because JC, D'Vorah and plus frames along with free pressure is aids

 

[thlityoursloat]

scorpions options are: both extremely punishable and not particularly fast
erron black options: not particularly fast but gets to choose between launching ,speed and range. And it's basically a 50/50 on wake up

11f is not fast? :/

I also hope you know EB's slide is slower, doesn't low profile as fast, is -ve on hit and is still punishable on block. He also gets that horrible launcher in his worst variation.

E: Also EX teleport, if it comes out is 'basically a 50/50' too since you have to guess if he's going to cancel it or not.

 

[Wigy]

If Scorpion has the worst wakeups in the game, then what does Erron Black have? And Quan Chi?

Errons wakeups are bad what?

He has a low armour, combo starting armour (in one variation) and a command grab that has insane range and is like 13 frames.

 

[Wigy]

11f is not fast? :/

I also hope you know EB's slide is slower, doesn't low profile as fast, is -ve on hit and is still punishable on block. He also gets that horrible launcher in his worst variation.

E: Also EX teleport, if it comes out is 'basically a 50/50' too since you have to guess if he's going to cancel it or not.

The slide also antiairs if they crossup late. You forgotten about the command grab?

 

[thlityoursloat]

If you want to see my argument for all the points you mentioned then scroll up lol.

 

[omooba]

11f is not fast? :/

I also hope you know EB's slide is slower, doesn't low profile as fast, is -ve on hit and is still punishable on block. He also gets that horrible launcher in his worst variation.

E: Also EX teleport, if it comes out is 'basically a 50/50' too since you have to guess if he's going to cancel it or not.

slower by 2 frames and i acknowledged that neither is fast. what you're calling a 50/50 is basically do i punish now or punish later vs full combo or command grab. with everything i've said do u seriously think 2 frames faster is better than true 50/50 and further range

 

[TyCarter35]

E: Also EX teleport, if it comes out is 'basically a 50/50' too since you have to guess if he's going to cancel it or not.

But EX teleport can poked out of whether he chooses whiff or not once he hits teleports and is about to attack.