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Match-Up Discussion - Sub-Zero Scorpion vs Sub zero

So we all know who Ed Boons favorite character is. Is it fair that Scorpion now gets a 'freeze' attack that instantly comes up underneath you whereas Subs Iceball has to fly through the air? Not to mention his arsenal of other moves, his other 'freeze' (the spear), his teleport and so on.

Why does Ed boon hate Sub Zero?
 

Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
So we all know who Ed Boons favorite character is. Is it fair that Scorpion now gets a 'freeze' attack that instantly comes up underneath you whereas Subs Iceball has to fly through the air? Not to mention his arsenal of other moves, his other 'freeze' (the spear), his teleport and so on.

Why does Ed boon hate Sub Zero?
Please don't...like I'm truly begging you. With everyone bahing about how good subzero is the last thing anyone needs is this. Scorpion forces sub to play in a way that is out of his comfort zone, so the subzero player has to adjust. And all things considered the clone is honestly gdlk in this game with its ability to be thrown and act as a projectile sheild. In that regard sub has all needs and then some. It's a matter of figuring out how to deal with it using the tools he has.
 
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MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I'm curious what @Tom Brady thinks of the Sub-Zero vs. Scorpion match up. Is it even again? or really depends on variation especially?
 
Sub has no combos short of pinning the enemy in the corner, and a rather short list of specials. So why does his sworn enemy have multiple holds, more specials, and 45%+ midscreen no bar combos? Favoritism
 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I think a character like scorpion can give grandmaster sub a hard time because of all his ways around the clone, especially in hellfire and on a good stage. Still sub has 2 other variations that don't get much love. Unbreakable can probably fair a lot better against Scorpion but I'm going off theory here. If clone is the main reason grand master is so great and Scorpion can get around clone with a lot of different options I would swap out the clone for something else like reduced chip from scorpion fbc strings.
 
I'm not gonna be an ass to you, we have all been frustrated with Scorpion. With that said, Sub-Zero is easily one of the better characters in the game,
possibly even better than Scorpion if speaking about early tiers.

Imagine how we all feel going against Sub-Zero. Also, this game isn't all about combos.

As far as Ed showing favoritism, Scorpion was mediocore in MK9 and there were quite a few better characters.

Do I agree with Scorpion getting such easy damage for so little effort? Of course not. I can warn you nowthough. They are gonna say "well his startup frames are extremely slow and can be easily read." :DOGE
 

Houndovhell

Subby-Z is my Main Man, the Man that I Main
I agree it is difficult to play against a scorpion. Especially casual players who just spam stuff. However, I agree with the above comments, it just forces us out of the comfort zone. If you truly believe you should play a scorpvssub matchup, then you just need to adapt. I play heavy offense (cryomancer even) against scorpion, keeping pressure, and just watch out for his low trip move tthingymahbobber. :p
 
Thanks. Well yes I refuse to choose my character based on my opponent, especially my sworn enemy. Switching fighting style I would consider but I dont think that would be helpful. I guess Sub is better than I realize it's just hard to see at first glance, and I cannot get comfortable in the corner. Is there a fairly easy Bnb corner combo that doesn't rely on having an ice clone shatter or hard to pull off tech, or being gender specific? I have been trying to work with F4- ice clone and then B4, but I'm not coming up with anything big after the freeze
 
I main both Sub and Scorp and I must say Inferno is not really hard to play against. Good Hellfire is worse that's why I play it :D. Minion grab is easy to predict cause you see scorpion reaching for his skull. I admit that it has caught me once or twice during slide start up frames but I quickly adjusted and started jumping at him. It's all a matter of practice and yes his start up frames ARE SLOW on minion grab. This can be punished on reaction just practice against him.
 

Reauxbot

You think you bad? You aint bad.
In all fairness. He is a spectre of hell, and one of the strongest combatants in the area. Im not suprised he has minions
The spear has always been a classic weopon and the teleport has been a main move of his.
All hellfire moves make sense just from his background and name.
Ninjitsu just because hes a bomb ass ninja. At least its not an overhead launcher :)

And thats why Scorpion has all his moves.
Makes sense to me.
You forget that ice ball is almost a ghostly shell that goes through everything and freezes long enough to get a nice war going in Clash of Clans.
 

DSilv3R

Noob
I'm not sure what changing variations actually helps do in a tournament situation. If you end up picking another variation, shouldn't you be expected to be counter picked back by your opponent?

Inferno is one of the matchups I think Sub GM struggles in, but it's one of my favourite matchups to play. It forces you to learn your opponents strong points and where they get the majority of their damage from.

Fullscreen, Scorpion only can get optimal damage that leads to the reset via minion grab, spear and ex teleport. So you can't rely on a projectile war and getting a random iceball to hit. You'll need to adjust and play a more cautious style inching your way forward, so that you can get a jump in on a spear or minion grab. And you'll still need to be mindful of keeping an eye on his meter to see if he is able to ex teleport on reaction to your jumps.

Close up, Scorpion has even more options, where you'll need to watch out for his overhead which can lead to optimal damage to a reset. I enjoy the close up range because it turns into a footsies battle, especially if it's a good Scorpion player not a gimmicky one.

To me, take the bad matchups and embrace em. Complaining about a matchup without putting time into is just as bad as all the players who shit on GM Sub since they haven't learned how to get around clones.
 

TheIrishFGCguy

Pew pew pew
I would agree and say Inferno feels like a bad MU for Grandmaster. Against a good Inferno Scorpion I have a lot of trouble keeping him in check and forcing my game on him. Not a big deal, everyone has bad match ups and it's not like it's unwinnable. Hell if anything I'm just happy that both Sub and Scorpion are good in this game.
 
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Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
I would agree and say Inferno feels like a bad MU for Grandmaster. Against a good Inferno Scorpion I have a lot of trouble keeping him in check and forcing my game on him. Not a big deal, everyone has bad match ups and it's not like it's unwinnable. Hell if anything I'm just happy that both Sub and Scorpion are good in this game.
However long they remain that way well....thats left to be seen, but they are probably going to die.