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General/Other - Scorpion Scorpion in October 4th's new patch

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Deadlywolf

Noob
  • Scorpion - Flameport no longer has armor as a wakeup
  • Scorpion - Takeout now has 2 hits of armor
  • Scorpion (Ninjutsu) -
  • Scorpion (Hellfire) - added 2 additional frames before you can dash cancel out of Fire Ball if the opponent is blocking
  • Scorpion (Inferno) - Minion Slam is now +2 on block (up from -21)
  • Scorpion (Inferno) - Minion Strike is now +3 on block (up from -27)
Ex Teleport no longer has armor on wake up.

For what it's worth, I think he is actually looking really good. Teleport itself will probably still have some evasive properties just for being a teleport.

A lot of his challenging match ups, Alien, Dvorah, Cassie, Kung Lao, A-List Johnny, Kung Jin, Dragon's Fire Liu Kang, Takeda, etc. They all had something that has been taken from them. It's either a solid 50-50 or armored launchers.

I think it's nice that Scorpion didn't get hit with any major nerf bats. Again, his Ex Teleport, it still launches. It still dodges like crazy, it just doesn't have that single hit of armor on wake up. He's probably one of the few characters in the game right now that has an evasive launcher if you think about it.

I think the run stamina mechanic helps his Ninjutsu a lot as well. Catch someone running with b2, you will drain half of their stamina and they will have to eat the full combo because they can't break it.

Just some of my quick thoughts about the patch and Scorpion.
 
Perdition

Perdition

Your friendly neighborhood cynic
No one really knows how good or bad he may be in the new version. The balance has been rehauled, which is very interesting. Taking armor away from the teleport is not a big deal because almost any one hit could knock you out of it. The armor on that move was very sketchy to begin with.
 
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Deadlywolf

Noob
ismael4790 said:
According to patch notes, yes.

But his armor breaking game is over now wakeups have two hits of armor.

His spacing is godlike though and in this meta I think he can do very well.
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His armor breaking was kinda unreliable to begin with. From my personal experience, f2 gets beaten pretty badly against delayed wake ups. And f2 doesn't recover very quickly on whiff. So I get blown up after they delay wake up. Once you are conditioned to not do f2 anymore, you risk getting hit by armored launchers. It was meh :/, I think it's great that he doesn't have to resort to it anymore.

With the new patch, there will be less of armored launchers now!
 
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Deadlywolf

Noob
Oh ya, this is definitely worth mentioning but

Delayed Wakeup will no longer activate if the block button is pressed or held while holding down


I think this makes it a lot easier for Scorpion to wake up teleport into a cancel(to behind or away).

There been MANY times where I would try to teleport-> cancel on wake up, but it makes me delay wake up instead. From an execution perspective, this is very exciting for me. There is a lot of situations where he can teleport behind the opponent, and land b2 with Ninjutsu.
 
GamerBlake90

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
With these recent changes, I see Scorpion coming out of this patch more for the better than for the worse.

I'd hoped for Inferno to get more buffs than what he got, but at least he finally got something, thank the Elder Gods. I wonder how @Mitsuownes feels about the new Inferno?

Not surprised to see Hellfire's cancels take a hit in light of all the new plus frames he got from the March update, as well as the universal nerf to run cancel characters via the increased cost in stamina for start-up runs plus another huge cost if they get hit out of the run. But Hellfire still retains its 50/50s, anti-zoning and high damage output.

Ninjutsu...well, with the adjustment to armored launchers, our F2/B4 oki may not be as useful as it was before. But considering that we won't get launched if we do get tagged with a wake-up, it's a fair trade! And keep in mind that players may still wake-up with EX moves that have much faster start-up than their original forms, so I wouldn't abandon our knockdown game just yet.

If jump-ins got nerfed as well as I think they did, jumping in with jump-3 won't be as reliable anymore. However, you still have the ability to "fake" your jump-ins with teleport cancels, or punishing with air teleport if you expect them to throw out a button. And in return, our S3 and D2 anti-airs will work better than they did before this patch!

If players continue to mis-time their meaties, you can still escape the opposition with teleport cancel after you are knocked down. As well, with enough EX Takedowns (it now has two hits of armor!), they'll eventually start trying to bait you which once again opens up your option to escape with teleport...just be careful if you use the version that puts you behind the opponent because it can still be punished if anticipated.

Overall, I look forward to out-spacing you, anti-airing more consistently, checking your run-ins, enjoying a high damage output and representing the Shirai Ryu!
 
Mitsuownes

Mitsuownes

Grandmaster of the Shirai-Ryu
Here is the issue: When people see stuff like

Scorpion (Inferno) - Minion Slam is now +2 on block (up from -21)
Scorpion (Inferno) - Minion Strike is now +3 on block (up from -27)

they will say "Wooow, Inferno got huge improvements!" when in reality those frames are completely wrong. The minions slam was never -21, the minion strike was never -27. And just by the way, those are the ex versions of the specials. You don't have to hold any of that. Any normal into a minion is not a thing.

Inferno was, is and probably will always be garbage. The Scorpion community didn't cry enough.
 
JTB123

JTB123

>>R2 - BF4 = Unblockable.
Hard to say how he will stand going forward but that wakeup teleport nerf could be devastating. Nobody was going to stuff EX takedown so giving that two hits of armour is pointless.

Risk/reward is now heavily out of his favour on wake up but after a brief glance at the patch notes it seems a lot of them have been altered this way so we'll have to wait and see.

Mitsuownes said:
Here is the issue: When people see stuff like

Scorpion (Inferno) - Minion Slam is now +2 on block (up from -21)
Scorpion (Inferno) - Minion Strike is now +3 on block (up from -27)

they will say "Wooow, Inferno got huge improvements!" when in reality those frames are completely wrong. The minions slam was never -21, the minion strike was never -27. And just by the way, those are the ex versions of the specials. You don't have to hold any of that. Any normal into a minion is not a thing.

Inferno was, is and probably will always be garbage. The Scorpion community didn't cry enough.
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So true. It's still one of the biggest blow ups to this day that people did not know the absolute basics of Inferno. The fact that he was ever considered a zoning variation is ridiculous.
 
TyCarter35

TyCarter35

Bonafide Jax scrub
Honestly. Scorpion being left alone outside of the oh minion being plus is a minor improvement thay gives inferno some to at the very least work with. The universal jump in nerfs indirectly make Scorpion's already strong AA game even stronger while hurting his air game a little bit tho it won't break him. Ninjutsu loses a lot of his armor breaking tools due to every character getting two hits or more hits of armor tho getting launched he won't have to worry about. Idk how much Hellfire will be affected by the fbrc nerf tho it won't be too bad I hope. Ninjutsu in particular looks to benefit quite a bit from the universal changes across the cast as he isn't meter reliant when it comes to dmg and has a strong neutral along with solid buttons. The fact that many of his bad/difficult matchups got nerfed may suggest that ninjutsu in particular will probably go above mid tier which is where ninjutsu has been stuck in for the longest time possible
 
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Deadlywolf

Noob
Some extra things I want to point out.

His 214 can be used more liberally in this new patch. The armor gap in his 214 was extremely frustrating sometimes. Before, there would be many characters in the game that could launch you between the gap. With most armored launchers gone you don't have to worry about getting launched throwing out 214 anymore. Even though a lot of specials have been given 2 hits of armor now, you could always try 21 into tp cancel or 21 into cross up jump to bait out the armor.

The random gap in 114 was annoying too and I don't know if the random gap is still there. But I do remember trying to use 114 as a substitute 214 because of the fear of getting launched by armor. Sometimes, I still get launched trying to use 114.

I think hellfire will be a lot better in this new patch, because of what I just mention about 214.

I've been reading and analyzing the patch notes a lot. They tone down the + frames on a lot of moves, so I think his takeout as armor will still have some use. Scorpion's oki is really good and you can get very good mileage from 1 takeout. It's really easy to jump against takeout, but considering how they supposedly made it easier to anti-air in this game, his takeout might give the opponent more motivation to recklessly jump, giving you more opportunities to anti air them.
 
Paul the Octopus

Paul the Octopus

Slow Starter
JTB123 said:
Hard to say how he will stand going forward but that wakeup teleport nerf could be devastating. Nobody was going to stuff EX takedown so giving that two hits of armour is pointless.

Risk/reward is now heavily out of his favour on wake up but after a brief glance at the patch notes it seems a lot of them have been altered this way so we'll have to wait and see.



So true. It's still one of the biggest blow ups to this day that people did not know the absolute basics of Inferno. The fact that he was ever considered a zoning variation is ridiculous.
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I disagree with 2 hits of armor being pointless. You can now armor through sub zero's clone plus overhead setup (and other similar ones). That could be a big deal given that Sub got buffed and could be a very important character in the new meta.
 
Xzyj

Xzyj

Mortal
Althought hellfire run cancels was hit hard (only 1 cancel due to new stamina system i believe) and 2 frame less advantage on block he still seems like a super solid character in this patch to me:

1) Huge damage (39% corner meterless into restand, 45% 1 bar in the middle)

2) Amazing block and hit advantage on some cancels (3 fbc, b1 fbc, 21 fbc) after standing 3 and b1 fbc you can continue your combo even with simple dash into 214 without running, 3 fbc also has great block advantage that allows you to continue your pressure with mids, in case they try to counterpoke - you get free combo.

3) Teleport. New meta seems to be centered about space control and probably will benefit zoners quite a bit, and scorpion tele is probably one of the best moves in the entire game to counter zoners, especially when they do instant air projectiles, since it will grand you free combo with a restand (tele, f3-spear, ...)

4) Overall nerf to armor launchers - you can pretty much use 214 now without any fear, and even if you fear something you can always try to bait armor with 214-tele since it will beat most armors by doing tele before they hit scorpion.

5) a LOT of staggers - you in no need to rely on your cancels only to be at advantage, 21 is plus, 1 is plus, standing 3 is plus and b12 is great for staggering your opponents, before doing cancels or mid cancels to start more pressure while they wait for another string. We just probably gonna have to do a lot of throws to make people want to press buttons more.

6) GREAT Anti-air with standing 3 - that probably got even better after aerial attacks got nerfed, i absolutely love that move and use it almost everywhere i can now after i tried it in different situations (sometimes i even do 21/3 fireball and check them with standing 3 fbc since they still in hit stun, and if they try to press buttons - you get free combo, if not - you're at very good advantage and can continue your pressure).


So yeah, i think we're good to go, Scorpion to me feels among the top tiers in this patch.
 
HuttonMD

HuttonMD

ADM Riddles
Paul the Octopus said:
I disagree with 2 hits of armor being pointless. You can now armor through sub zero's clone plus overhead setup (and other similar ones). That could be a big deal given that Sub got buffed and could be a very important character in the new meta.
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All of subs unsafe clone cancels can be teleport punished anyway but your right that now we can just throw it out to stop his 50/50 clone set ups
 
JTB123

JTB123

>>R2 - BF4 = Unblockable.
Paul the Octopus said:
I disagree with 2 hits of armor being pointless. You can now armor through sub zero's clone plus overhead setup (and other similar ones). That could be a big deal given that Sub got buffed and could be a very important character in the new meta.
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I doubt that will have much of an impact but I suppose it's not going to hurt.

If it was a case of that or keep armour on wake up tele I know which on I'd chose.
 
Matix218

Matix218

Get over here!
It feels like there were so many universal changes and changes to other characters that gave scorpion trouble that it is impossible to tell if he is in a good place or not. I am guessing that he will be more tournament viable than before based on the changes listed in the notes (mainly to other characters). I still see inferno being the worst variation since his frame buffs were exclusive to EX moves. It will be harder for Ninjutsu to shred armor now which is a nerf but the overall changes to the run mechanic and stamina are a buff to Ninjutsu IMO. I'm not sure about hellfire yet without testing his cancels out with the new frame changes and overall run changes. I know scorpion will have an insanely strong anti air game with s3 and d2. It will be interesting to see how much the wake-up ex teleport armor removal hurts, but there are very few armored launchers in general now so overall he is probably in a better place. Excited to mess around with this new patch!
 
neveradestroyer

neveradestroyer

Kombatant
Phew!. I thought that Ninjutsu got a nerf. Well... Time to go back online with my shitty internet, to 50/50's my opponents to death. LMAO
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
I just read the patch notes (all patch notes, note just Scorp) as I have been away for a pretty long time, and damn I think Scorp can be pretty solid with what NRS is attempting to take a shot at doing in this patch. Ninjutsu might be his strongest variation now.
 
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