Question Rush Saibot: What are his tools?

[RYX]

I know that Noob isn't considered a great rush-down character, but I think that we need to re-evaluate the tools he has available to him, and that's what I'm going to ask: What MAKES a rush-down Saibot? Are clone 50/50's, however risky, necessary to succeed in an up-close game? Can Noob compensate for his damage with the range on his normals? And just how footsie-intense IS Noob Saibot?

I do know about his general footsie/up-close game(f3 series, b1 cancels, etc.) but I'm almost positive there's something I'm missing. Plus, some discussion about what Noob can do would be nice.

 

[Dark_Rob]

You should check out the Kombat Houston stream archives and look for the Saturday night after hours stream from MLG and watch all the casuals Madzin played. Hes the best Noob Ive seen. Hes also very unreliant on pure zoning. He isnt pure rushdown either, but he combines them both and he has really good footsies. More Noob players should check him out.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Madzin
Hitoshura
InFlames
Wemfs

If you gentlemen would be so kind as to pump up this discussion...?

My personal two-cents: don't risk his 50/50's up close. He takes an assload of time to recover from chucking a shadow, so you're bound to be punished for a full combo. If you're gonna rush, always end your blockstrings with Shadow Upknee and then backtrack. I've always played a defensive Saibot, as I feel it's the main element to his game.

 

[RYX]

Defensive footsies seem his best tools, but the occasional mix-up never did me harm. i.e B12-Slide, as a small example. I get a lot of people to jump when they think I'm going to throw another clone, so I can Upknee on reaction or get an AA.

Also, as a question, how good is his standing 4 as a footsie tool? It has such a big hitbox on it and as an anti-air it links into TS for unbreakable damage- about 16% if I remember.

 

[Ashenar]

D .R. had a pretty good rush down game with saibot it's been a while if you find some videos on him and Madzin more or less that should cover the spacing and tools used in noobs rush down game.

 

[Hitoshura]

Agreed. D.R. and Madzin have great rushdown Noob's. I'm more defensive but can get aggressive when I feel comfortable.

 

[Qwark28]

F3/33/333

you gotta mix that shit, f3 is so much better than f33 imo, a fast advancing kick and they cant even see the second move in order to start thinking about the coming grab.

my throw setups

2 throw
f3 throw
f33 throw
b1 throw
b2 throw

f43 is the best move in the game <3333 , you can make it safe via in front portal.

i think noob should abuse portals more, not so much in open space as in close combat, those close let him pressure more and make his rushdown decently safe.

 

[fr stack]

if your on x box add me and ill play you using my noob my gamertag is fr stack

 

[RYX]

if your on x box add me and ill play you using my noob my gamertag is fr stack

Sorry, PlayStation. :/

 

[RYX]

F3/33/333

you gotta mix that shit, f3 is so much better than f33 imo, a fast advancing kick and they cant even see the second move in order to start thinking about the coming grab.

my throw setups

2 throw
f3 throw
f33 throw
b1 throw
b2 throw

f43 is the best move in the game <3333 , you can make it safe via in front portal.

i think noob should abuse portals more, not so much in open space as in close combat, those close let him pressure more and make his rushdown decently safe.

Never really thought F43 was very good, it's my favorite whiff punisher though. I'll definitely start using it more though.

 

[Wemfs]

Ok, lets take a look at Noobs footsie/pressure game. What tools does he have?

- Standing 1 at 11 frames. His second quickest normal with nice range. Neutral on block. Good for pressure. 1,2 on hit can be canceled into upknee for the +4. Though it can be ducked by every single character I think.

- His 2 -- 2,1 -- 2,1,2 are all neutral on block and cancelable into upknee. His fastest normal, but it lacks range. You could go 2,1 into another 2,1 into another 2,1... ect. but once again it's a high and can be ducked by everyone.

- B1 at a slow 21 frames but has great range. Also neutral on block and is a MID! Blows up a lot of pokes if spaced properly.

- B2 at 19 frames. Neutral on block. Usually just cancel into throw or do some sort of mix-up after with a 2,1 -- 1,2 or w/e.

- F3 at 17 frames. F33 is neutral on block. His only other MID. Great to incorporate into your pressure game so as to keep them blocking and not looking to neutral crouch under his other high normals.

Imo in order for Noobs pressure game to thrive you need to utilize the spacing on his MIDS correctly and mix them up into your pressure game at the right times. For example after a blocked f33, it leaves your at a perfect distance to do a b1 and blow up a poke. Well timed b1's and f3's open up your opponent for more swag pressure.

I also believe you have to make them respect the overhead shadow tackle. I know against certain characters you can get blown up horribly off a blocked tackle (depending on the spacing), but on the flip side, a lot of characters can't punish you really. Know your match ups. lol Keeping them standing is a must imo because all of Noobs fast normals can be ducked, thus nullifying his pressure game. Because LBSH, after a d3 (on hit) what are Noobs options for pressure? 1,2? Yes if you keep them honest with the tackle. Otherwise they'll blow up your 1,2 with an uppercut or just block your d3 and counterpoke. F33? No, it's too slow and will be poked out of. B1? Too slow. 2,1,2? Same as 1,2. His options are better off a d4, (on hit) though.

Noobs pressure game would be much better if he had a fast mid or low, but he doesn't. So imo his pressure game will always be just above average.

I tend to play a defensive Saibot like GamerBlake90. Ending all pressure with upknee and keeping them honest with the overhead tackle.

My 2 cents.

 

[InFlames]

-Almost all of Noob's strings can be parried out of.
-Mix in F333 until they respect it and start crouch-blocking as the rest of his moves are duckable.
-When canceling Up Knee at the end of certain blocked strings(12 and B1214) it whiffs, though if they jump/dash forward right after the string ends, they will get hit. This ensures a safe get-away.
-Abuse his throw. Noob has the best throw in the game with large range. In the corner, like Sub Zero, he has his own Throw Trap.
-Mix in In-Front Portals(DFB2) after strings that push back to bait a jump-in.
-F43 is useless, even on hit.

Either way, Zoning is necessary with Noob. You can't just rush-down all game without getting blown up. Make your opponent come to you and then start pressuring.

 

[PPJ]

d4~slide or tackle

gimmicky mixup, but at least when I do it, it works most of the time

 

[fr stack]

always remember when to back away b1214 can be a great whiff punisher.. in front portals can be used almost like a parry , from jump distance let them land a jump in punch most often theyll get about 5% before the portal hits them and u can njp combo its quite gimmicky but it works a lot

 

[RYX]

I play very defensively most of the time, but I'd like to change that to hopefully help my tendency towards zoning characters(Reptile, Sektor, etc.) So playing aggressively with Saibot is not a good idea?

 

[Grolarbears]

Ok, lets take a look at Noobs footsie/pressure game. What tools does he have?

- Standing 1 at 11 frames. His second quickest normal with nice range. Neutral on block. Good for pressure. 1,2 on hit can be canceled into upknee for the +4. Though it can be ducked by every single character I think.

- His 2 -- 2,1 -- 2,1,2 are all neutral on block and cancelable into upknee. His fastest normal, but it lacks range. You could go 2,1 into another 2,1 into another 2,1... ect. but once again it's a high and can be ducked by everyone.

- B1 at a slow 21 frames but has great range. Also neutral on block and is a MID! Blows up a lot of pokes if spaced properly.

- B2 at 19 frames. Neutral on block. Usually just cancel into throw or do some sort of mix-up after with a 2,1 -- 1,2 or w/e.

- F3 at 17 frames. F33 is neutral on block. His only other MID. Great to incorporate into you pressure game so as to keep them blocking and not looking to neutral crouch under his other high normals.

Imo in order for Noobs pressure game to thrive you need to utilize the spacing on his MIDS correctly and mix them up into your pressure game at the right times. For example after a blocked f33, it leaves your at a perfect distance to do a b1 and blow up a poke. Well timed b1's and f3's open up your opponent for more swag pressure.

I also believe you have to make them respect the overhead shadow tackle. I know against certain characters you can get blown up horribly off a blocked tackle (depending on the spacing), but on the flip side, a lot of characters can't punish you really. Know your match ups. lol Keeping them standing is a must imo because all of Noobs fast normals can be ducked, thus nullifying his pressure game. Because LBSH, after a d3 (on hit) what are Noobs options for pressure? 1,2? Yes if you keep them honest with the tackle. Otherwise they'll blow up your 1,2 with an uppercut or just block your d3 and counterpoke. F33? No, it's too slow and will be poked out of. B1? Too slow. 2,1,2? Same as 1,2. His options are better off a d4, (on hit) though.

Noobs pressure game would be much better if he had a fast mid or low, but he doesn't. So imo his pressure game will always be just above average.

I tend to play a defensive Saibot like GamerBlake90. Ending all pressure with upknee and keeping them honest with the overhead tackle.

My 2 cents.

This is effectively what you need to know. Make them stand block by respecting shadow charge and Noob's mids, then your other pressure options open up. All about conditioning an opponent.

 

[SaJa]

You should check out the Kombat Houston stream archives and look for the Saturday night after hours stream from MLG and watch all the casuals Madzin played.

Can't get to the archives (no "video" tittle). Do you have any link ?