Robocop Patch suggestions

[DarksydeDash]

Hey Everyone, I've been playing Robocop just to keep myself invested in the game and turns out he's a lot of fun! That being said, while playing him, I've come to understand his weaknesses (there's unfortunately a lot) and think some of these changes might really help him out.

Bug Fixes:
- Opponent's stunned by the Tear Gas no longer randomly fall out of stun state.

• Jade's glow no longer makes her immune to the Tear Gas
• Electric Shield now does damage to the opponent when a Fatal Blow is blocked.
• Erron Black can no longer shoot Spikes with Scud Shot (This is incredibly weird since it's not a projectile)

General Improvements (Universal):

• Reduced damage scaling overall
  [*]F42 is now 13 frames (down from 18) and hits Mid, Mid.
  [*]Cobra Canon 2nd and 3rd hit damage increased if the 1st hit whiffs. (Currently does 5% for two hits and a bar).
• F322 is now special cancelable
• F3 hitbox increased below Robocop's knee to prevent whiffing on crouching opponents
• B4 is now -10 (down from -14) and can be special cancelled before the opponent is knocked down.
• B4 damage increased
• All hits of B4 now connect when hitting the opponent.
• B2 now hits mid
• D4 startup reduced to 11 frames (down from 14)
• D3 is now -7 on block (down from -10)
• B3 startup reduced to 13 frames (down from 17)
• B1 hitbox increased below the Data Spike to prevent whiffing on crouching opponents.
• J2 hitbox increased (currently can not hit a crouching opponent)
• Grenades no longer disappear on trades
• Anti Air Gunshot, now has an additional input (db1f) to change projectile angle.

OCP's Finest:

• Damage of Active and Reactive Patrol (bf1) increased
• Meter spent from cancelling Active and Reactive patrol now recovers quicker.
• Active and Reactive Patrol now hits mid.
• Shock Grenades hit box increased (You can currently short hop over it)
• Shock Grenade Stun State now triggers if the opponent was grabbed before the explosion.
• Shock Grenades no longer disappear on trade
• Data Spike cmd grab now consistently tick throws on crouching opponents when special cancelled from d1

Prime Directive:
Seeing how this is easily his best variation and has fairly strong zoning, no specific changes are needed here due to the general improvements.

On Patrol:

• Recovery of Spikes reduced
• Spike DOT increased 2% per second to 3% per second.
• Auto-9 Amplify now hits hit mid mid.
• Tear Gas trajectory adjusted in the corner to prevent going off screen
• Db4 while spikes is out will now destroy the current spikes and all Robocop to replace them.
• Meter Spent on Electric Shield now recovers quicker.
• Tear Gas Grenade now bounces off the opponent when blocked and does DOT on hit, instead of disappearing.
• Air Riot Shield Charge KB requirement changed to "Hits at Max Distance or Breaks Armor" instead of "Hits as a kounter or punish from Max Distance or Breaks armor."

The goal here isn't to make Robocop OP but to put him, and all of variations, up to line with the rest of the cast. In Robocop's current state, there are some questionable things in the game, especially in terms of frame data, so the suggestions I've proposed can maybe help fix that.

 

[Obly]

Thanks @DarksydeDash. I've been playing some Robocop too; not at a high level, but enough to know that he's a lot better than people think… aaaand that he needs a lot of help to be truly competitive. I'd be happy with almost everything on your list (just one small disagreement), but I do think some changes are more important than others.

People think Robocop is a hardcore zoner, but that's not really true. He has moderately strong zoning tools, but that's meant to be paired with good movement and (in theory) interesting plus frame setups. The issue is that his setups don't work, because of some strange design decisions that make them almost impossible to get. So for me, I wouldn't prioritize changes that make his zoning stronger; I mainly want to see his setups become functional.

Just sharing a few thoughts in relation to your list--what I'd categorize as 'must haves' (needed to fix core problems) vs. 'nice to haves' (would be welcome buffs but not deal breakers). The items in red are ones I added. Items with (!!) are critical changes to fix clear flaws.

Bug Fixes:
Agreed these are all 'must haves'.

General Improvements (Universal):
Must haves

• Reduced damage scaling overall (!!)
• Expanded hit boxes to hit crouching opponents (s1, b1, f3, j2) (!!)
• Expanded front hit boxes on u2 and u3 to avoid whiffing against close opponents
• Grenades no longer disappear on trades (includes amplified versions) (!!)
• f322 is now special cancelable
• b3 startup reduced to 13 frames (down from 17)
• d3 is now -7 on block (down from -10)
• b4 is now -10 on block (down from -14)
• b2 startup reduced to 13 frames (down from 16)
• f4 startup reduced to 16 frames (down from 18)
• f42 cannot be neutral ducked if f4 is blocked (must have if f42 remains a high)
• Straight Auto-9 startup reduced to 18 (down from 22) and recovery reduced to 34 (down from 36)

Nice to haves

• f42 is now 13 frames (down from 18) and hits Mid, Mid
• Cobra Cannon 2nd and 3rd hit damage increased if the 1st hit whiffs
• b4 damage increased
• All hits of b4 now connect when hitting the opponent
• b4 can be special cancelled before the opponent is knocked down
• b2 now hits mid
• d4 startup reduced to 11 frames (down from 14)
• High Auto-9 (AA shot) now has an additional input (db1f) to change projectile angle
• Straight Auto-9 amplify now hits Mid, Mid

OCP's Finest
Must haves

• Shoulder Cannon amplify (shock grenades) total recovery (return to neutral, not including when the grenade detonates) reduced to 52 frames (!!)
• Active Patrol now hits mid (!!)
• Shock grenade hit box significantly increased, above and on both sides (!!)
• Command grab consistently tick throws crouching opponents when special cancelled from d1 (!!)
• Meter spent from cancelling Active and Reactive Patrol now recovers more quickly
• Shock grenade stun state now triggers if the opponent was grabbed before the explosion

Nice to haves

• Damage of Active and Reactive Patrol (bf1/db1) increased
• Reactive Patrol now hits mid

Prime Directive
Agreed, this variation needs no specific improvements other than universals

On Patrol
Must haves

• Cheval Trap amplify (tear gas)
  • Total recovery (return to neutral) reduced to 52 frames (!!)
  • Hit box increased on both sides (!!)
  • On block, bounces off the opponent and releases gas instead of disappearing
  • Trajectory adjusted in the corner to prevent going off screen
• Electric Shield (all !!)
  • Cost reduced to 1 defensive bar (down from 1 defensive + 1 offensive)
  • Meter spent recovers more quickly
  • Shield inflicts 80% of an incoming melee attack's block damage (chip) on hit or block
  • Shield inflicts 50% of an incoming projectile or ranged attack's block damage (chip) on hit or block

Nice to haves

• Recovery of Cheval Trap (spikes) reduced
• Spike DoT increased 2% per second to 3% per second
• db4 while spikes is out will now destroy the current spikes and cause Robocop to replace them (I'd prefer he be able to put two spike traps on screen at once, but this is fine)
• OCP Charge (air Riot Shield) KB requirement changed to "Hits at Max Distance or Breaks Armor" instead of "Hits as a kounter or punish from Max Distance or Breaks Armor."

Disagree
The only change I disagree with is having tear gas do DoT on hit instead of disappearing. I prefer the way it works now, where it applies set damage and resets/restands with plus frames, instead of releasing gas.

 

[jmt]

None of that is gonna happen lol seriously stop

 

[DarksydeDash]

Thanks @DarksydeDash. I've been playing some Robocop too; not at a high level, but enough to know that he's a lot better than people think… aaaand that he needs a lot of help to be truly competitive. I'd be happy with almost everything on your list (just one small disagreement), but I do think some changes are more important than others.

People think Robocop is a hardcore zoner, but that's not really true. He has moderately strong zoning tools, but that's meant to be paired with good movement and (in theory) interesting plus frame setups. The issue is that his setups don't work, because of some strange design decisions that make them almost impossible to get. So for me, I wouldn't prioritize changes that make his zoning stronger; I mainly want to see his setups become functional.

Just sharing a few thoughts in relation to your list--what I'd categorize as 'must haves' (needed to fix core problems) vs. 'nice to haves' (would be welcome buffs but not deal breakers). The items in red are ones I added. Items with (!!) are critical changes to fix clear flaws.

Bug Fixes:
Agreed these are all 'must haves'.

General Improvements (Universal):
Must haves

• Reduced damage scaling overall (!!)
• Expanded hit boxes to hit crouching opponents (s1, b1, f3, j2) (!!)
• Grenades no longer disappear on trades (includes amplified versions) (!!)
• f322 is now special cancelable
• b3 startup reduced to 13 frames (down from 17)
• d3 is now -7 on block (down from -10)
• b4 is now -10 on block (down from -14)
• b2 startup reduced to 12 frames (down from 16)
• f4 startup reduced to 16 frames (down from 18)
• f42 cannot be neutral ducked if f4 is blocked (must have if f42 remains a high)
• Straight Auto-9 startup reduced to 18 (down from 22) and recovery reduced to 34 (down from 36)

Nice to haves

• f42 is now 13 frames (down from 18) and hits Mid, Mid
• Cobra Cannon 2nd and 3rd hit damage increased if the 1st hit whiffs
• b4 damage increased
• All hits of b4 now connect when hitting the opponent
• b4 can be special cancelled before the opponent is knocked down
• b2 now hits mid
• d4 startup reduced to 11 frames (down from 14)
• High Auto-9 (AA shot) now has an additional input (db1f) to change projectile angle
• Straight Auto-9 amplify now hits Mid, Mid

OCP's Finest
Must haves

• Shoulder Cannon amplify (shock grenades) total recovery (return to neutral, not including when the grenade detonates) reduced to 52 frames (!!)
• Active Patrol now hits mid (!!)
• Shock grenade hit box significantly increased, above and on both sides (!!)
• Command grab consistently tick throws crouching opponents when special cancelled from d1 (!!)
• Meter spent from cancelling Active and Reactive Patrol now recovers more quickly
• Shock grenade stun state now triggers if the opponent was grabbed before the explosion

Nice to haves

• Damage of Active and Reactive Patrol (bf1/db1) increased
• Reactive Patrol now hits mid

Prime Directive
Agreed, this variation needs no specific improvements other than universals

On Patrol
Must haves

• Cheval Trap amplify (tear gas)
  • Total recovery (return to neutral) reduced to 52 frames (!!)
  • Hit box increased on both sides (!!)
  • On block, bounces off the opponent and releases gas instead of disappearing
  • Trajectory adjusted in the corner to prevent going off screen
• Electric Shield (all !!)
  • Cost reduced to 1 defensive bar (down from 1 defensive + 1 offensive)
  • Meter spent recovers more quickly
  • Shield inflicts 80% of an incoming melee attack's block damage (chip) on hit or block
  • Shield inflicts 50% of an incoming projectile or ranged attack's block damage (chip) on hit or block

Nice to haves

• Recovery of Cheval Trap (spikes) reduced
• Spike DoT increased 2% per second to 3% per second
• db4 while spikes is out will now destroy the current spikes and cause Robocop to replace them (I'd prefer he be able to put two spike traps on screen at once, but this is fine)
• OCP Charge (air Riot Shield) KB requirement changed to "Hits at Max Distance or Breaks Armor" instead of "Hits as a kounter or punish from Max Distance or Breaks Armor."

Disagree
The only change I disagree with is having tear gas do DoT on hit instead of disappearing. I prefer the way it works now, where it applies set damage and resets/restands with plus frames, instead of releasing gas.

Thanks for your input! Surprised you didn't see special cancelable B4 as a must have. In my opinon, having a special cancelable sweep would really help him out since it's easily his best button and we've had special cancalable sweeps before such as Ninjutsu Scorpion in MKX.

 

[Obly]

Edited to include expanded front hit boxes on u2 and u3 as well. Can't believe I forgot that--the number of times these whiff on opponents right in front of you is insane.

Thanks for your input! Surprised you didn't see special cancelable B4 as a must have. In my opinon, having a special cancelable sweep would really help him out since it's easily his best button and we've had special cancalable sweeps before such as Ninjutsu Scorpion in MKX.

Don't get me wrong--I think that would be an amazing tool for him. I was mostly just thinking that: (1) no other character in MK11 has a special cancelable sweep (that I'm aware of anyway?), so NRS may be against doing that as a design choice; and (2) I was trying to keep 'must haves' to things he really should have had at release, so that the character actually works as intended. New buffs would be great, but I'd still be happy if they just fixed his design flaws.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I only play on PC so my MU experience is limited, but here are the primary issues with RoboCop's design and why he's such a wet turd of a character:

1. His only working variation is Prime Directive; his trap variation just doesn't work and his command grab variation is janky as fuck. He also lives by Low Shot because it's by far his only viable tool.
2. Because of this, he only competes in MUs where zoning gives his opponent significant problems. However, any semi-decent player can walk in without issue. Aerial attacks also ruin this gameplan. He also gets outzoned by quite a bit of the cast.
3. His non-zoning tools are nonexistent. His staggers are fake and reactable and many of his strings won't fully connect against an airborne opponent, causing RoboCop to get punished (for example, if you hit with f212 just as the opponent jumps or enters an airborne state, the last hit will whiff and you'll eat a 40% Lao kombo). You can utterly disrespect his staggers because even if you guess wrong, oh no, you're taking 12%-19% damage if he spends meter...
4. His defense is also nonexistent. His u2/u3 are among the worst in the game, allowing characters to utterly disrespect him on wakeup. His d2 is fast, but the hitbox is garbage. Because of his giant hurtbox, slow normals, and lack of anti-airs, many characters can just jump all over him and your only option is to try not to whiff a d2. You can go for a standing 1 AA into a kombo, but the damage will be around 12% and if you whiff any part, there's a good chance you'll get full-kombo punished before you recover.

Those issues combine to make RoboCop essentially unplayable in this game. He is almost strictly limited to zoning in a game where there are characters with better zoning and so much more (looking at you, Sindel). It's like he's intentionally designed to do nothing but bf1 over and over because his other tools are just so utterly gimped.

Because of his low damage output, he has to open up his opponent 2 to 4 times for every 1 time they have to open him up! And because of his shitty normals, opening up a savvy opponent can be borderline impossible. All they have to do is wait for you to commit to some of your fake pressure, and then it's their turn.

Take Lao, for example. Every touch, anywhere on screen, will be converted into 30%+ damage. You'll be blocking mid and low staggers for days and going through the meat grinder with every wrong guess. However, if RoboCop manages to hit with his slow-ass, non-confirmable f4, he can get around 20% 1-bar midsceen, and closer to 30% in the corner. No stagger. Not confirmable. Slow as balls. 2nd hit is a high (which will get your ass hit with a 50% KB kombo if you're not careful...). No real oki potential. More often than not, you'll just be pecking away with d4, f212, and f322, getting blocked, and then guessing on staggers for 30 seconds until you can take another turn.

God, this character is hot trash.

 

[M2Dave]

@RoboCop , well-summarized.

I believe that Robocop has some good tools. I like the back and forward movement, the low auto, the krushing blow on both throws, and the mid command grab. However, he does no damage, has horrendous strings, and is unable to zone properly in a game with abundant teleports, reflects, absorptions, and projectile parries. I think that grenades should ignore projectile parries, krushing blow f+2,1,2 should launch, assault cannon should be safer on block and whiff, etc. NRS have been reluctant and stingy with the buffs so perhaps in the summer of 2021 we can finally enjoy playing Robocop. LOL.

 

[jmt]

It truly is unbelievable how bad NRS is at fixing trash characters. They are too busy designing new skins for cage and liu kang to worry about making characters actually viable. Joke of a development team. Sad af.

 

[M2Dave]

It truly is unbelievable how bad NRS is at fixing trash characters. They are too busy designing new skins for cage and liu kang to worry about making characters actually viable. Joke of a development team. Sad af.

The intention of this patch was to allow the vast majority of customizable moves in competitive gameplay. A balance patch will likely be released at a later time. NRS have buffed previous low tier characters like Kano, Kotal Kahn, and Skarlet so there are some signs to be optimistic.

 

[jmt]

The intention of this patch was to allow the vast majority of customizable moves in competitive gameplay. A balance patch will likely be released at a later time. NRS have buffed previous low tier characters like Kano, Kotal Kahn, and Skarlet so there are some signs to be optimistic.

I hear ya Dave, but I’ve been here since mk9 and they can never figure it out completely......but let’s release a few more scorpion and sub zero skins.

 

[Arqwart]

It truly is unbelievable how bad NRS is at fixing trash characters. They are too busy designing new skins for cage and liu kang to worry about making characters actually viable. Joke of a development team. Sad af.

I hear ya Dave, but I’ve been here since mk9 and they can never figure it out completely......but let’s release a few more scorpion and sub zero skins.

Honest question: do you genuinely think the balance team is the same team that's creating skins and that any design time spent on cosmetics directly removes time available to make balance changes?

 

[jmt]

Honest question: do you genuinely think the balance team is the same team that's creating skins and that any design time spent on cosmetics directly removes time available to make balance changes?

No of course not, it’s a joke about how they can’t make the bad characters viable but they can keep pumping out shit skins for lame characters.