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Match-up Discussion Reptile vs Noob

RYX

BIG PUSHER
This is my contribution to Treadmill 's MU discussion thing..y.

-This is a pretty straightforward MU for Reptile and it's a lot simpler than others say. Reptile beats Noob, plain and simple. It's a solid 7-3 in Reptile's favor and here's why.

Zoning:
-Do not ever try to zone Noob. Period. The last thing you want to do is give Noob the upper hand, and the best thing you'll get is maybe a trade. If Noob is just sitting there, then don't throw out anything because you'll eat a teleslam. This is really pretty simple; full screen is Noob's only advantage.

Getting in:
-Noob can be a pain in the ass when he's at full screen, but Reptile getting in has just one answer; Jump. Knowing when to jump his clones makes a HUGE difference here, because one jump and an elbow dash, and you're in. Don't hold block as soon as you get within touching distance because that's the fastest way to getting thrown the fuck out. Right as you get in, you can probably abuse the last few frames of his recovery, so initiate your offense with a blockstring or a poke.

Pressuring Noob:
-I cannot stress how important this is. DO NOT let Noob get away from you. Reptile dominates this match-up entirely when he gets in. Use resets, forceball set-ups, everything at your disposal to keep Noob on his toes. You can blow up Upknee attempts on read by backing up and either elbow dashing or throwing a forceball(This has to be done earlier to catch him in the animation, a little more difficult with a much bigger reward.) Noob has a difficult time keeping Reptile off him, abuse this. Forcing him to block your incoming pressure opens you up to gaining more meter for more forceball setups in the future as well as your forward throw, which lets you dash right after to get back in his face.

Getting thrown out:
-As badly as Reptile beats Noob up close, never forget that he has options. A blocked poke gets you counterpoked and puts him on a short offensive(unless you want to risk an elbow dash, but you'll get full combo punished by 212 Tackle). Noob has a great throw and he can use this afterwards. You need to respect it because he gets a 50/50 off of it. Noob should NEVER teleport to end a combo because it ruins the entire point of getting Reptile out of his face. Portals also work to catch an incoming Elbow Dash after knockdowns, be wary of them because it does limit what Reptile can do.

The corner:
-If Reptile gets Noob cornered, the game is over. Noob's only option is to breaker because anything else is too risky and with the exception of a cross-up, keeps him stuck in the corner. Don't elbow dash. This is a thing I saw somebody doing(it was online of course), and I just want to say it right now; if he blocks an Elbow Dash, you'll get thrown and now YOU'RE in the corner. Your only option here is EX Elbow Dash which isn't always good depending how good the Noob is at reacting, but truth be told, Noob's corner game isn't that scary. The only thing you have to respect is the Upknee and random throws after you've blocked for seven centuries. You can dash out of him trying to poke you before or after they're blocked, but you have to respect 12 and 212 upknee. Noob's corner game can only keep Reptile down if he guesses right every time, and he doesn't have many options. Just wait for openings because anything else is going to get you punished for big damage as anybody who's played Noob will know. He can fuck you up pretty bad with resets and corner traps, but that's it. He can't really maintain corner pressure on you if you see through the shenanigans with Upknee. Alternatively, you can armor out with EX Slide, but this is a huge risk that I'd only recommend if the Noob never hesitates and just goes Upknee, poke, Upknee, poke, Upknee, poke.

Summary:
-Reptile beats Noob 7-3 purely on his rush-down alone. His zoning is irrelevant here because Noob wins outright. The key to getting in is jumping, it's not difficult but beware of any stray portals at full screen, especially Front portals because they're great for keeping you from moving forward, and are a grossly underused tool. Once you get in, it's pretty smooth sailing because it's a guessing game in your favor.(One quick add-on; depending on where you are, if you Elbow dash and eat a clone while a portal is coming down, you can fall into the portal and Noob gets some pretty good damage. Nothing MU changing because it only happens once in a blue moon but it's just something to know.)
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Jumping over a projectile is not that simple if the Noob player isn't cloning predictably. There's no guarantee you'll react to every clone properly.

That's all I have to say about this matchup.
 
Jumping over a projectile is not that simple if the Noob player isn't cloning predictably. There's no guarantee you'll react to every clone properly.

That's all I have to say about this matchup.
So are you saying overall that he is correct in the match up?
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
Jumping over a projectile is not that simple if the Noob player isn't cloning predictably. There's no guarantee you'll react to every clone properly.

That's all I have to say about this matchup.
There's no guarantee you'll react to anything properly. The point is kind of moot because only a few people are actually able to react to everything 100% of the time. Nobody's perfect and it really doesn't affect the actual match-up itself.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
So are you saying overall that he is correct in the match up?
I'm saying that Noob doesn't get blown up bad in this matchup at all. There's no guarantee you'll jump over Noob's clones like that. Unless you have air mobility, when jumping is your best option in and not dash blocking, there's gonna be problems.

This matchup was 7-3 Reptile when Noob was fucked for having a clone blocked and couldn't teleslam forceballs. THAT was hard for Noob. Now because he actually beats Reptile in a ranged fight, it gives him a lot more room to work with.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
If Reptile wins only on 1 part of the screen it isn't much of a 7-3 MU now isn't it?

The guide breaks down the MU really well but I still don't believe it's a 7-3.But that's just numbers, in my head it'll always be 6-4 Reptile.
 

InFlames

dead
I don't see how Reptile's corner game can win simply win him a game. He has to guess whether to jump over the shadows or D4 the UpKnee. Also, Noob's Wall Trap options beat all his wakeups(Except EX Dash), so all he has to do is look out for a jump.
 

Wemfs

The only morality in a cruel world is chance.
From recent experience I'm starting to think the mu is a 6-4 and not a 7-3. The more I play it the more it feels kinda even honestly.
 

Wemfs

The only morality in a cruel world is chance.
I don't see how Reptile's corner game can win simply win him a game. He has to guess whether to jump over the shadows or D4 the UpKnee. Also, Noob's Wall Trap options beat all his wakeups(Except EX Dash), so all he has to do is look out for a jump.
A little move I like to use against Reptiles in the corner is ending the combo in a "SPLAT!" and do a in front portal, the portal will fall behind noob so if the reptile decides to wake up ex elbow dash to get out of the corner, he'll fall into the blackhole.
 
Reactions: RYX
Noobs problem is if reptile blocks a clone anywhere within dash distance. Bf2 now I'm in.

Good write up by the way. I like these so far, it stimulates good mu conversation.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Noobs problem is if reptile blocks a clone anywhere within dash distance. Bf2 now I'm in.

Good write up by the way. I like these so far, it stimulates good mu conversation.
You're in at disadvantage, though (approximately -10 to be exact). It's a total guessing game in such a scenario where dash whiffs.
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
From my experience, Reptile wins up close, completely and entirely. He loses hands down in a zoning war, but he doesn't need it, so it doesn't affect the MU at the highest level of play.(Look at something like Kung Lao vs Mileena; he can't use his teleport, but he doesn't need it, and it's still a 7-3 from what others have told me.) The problem is is that he gets in ridiculously fast off a jumped clone from full screen and a blocked one from about half screen, and that Noob has too much trouble keeping him off. His mobility is a bitch for someone as slow as Noob. That's why I feel it's 7-3, which is a comfortable advantage. Reptile doesn't have a -slight- advantage, he has an advantage.
 

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Great post. The only two things I disagree with are:

1) Jumping is not the best way to get in on Noob Saibot. You'll likely get anti-aired by either a Shadow Upknee or standing 2. This will only work if he becomes predictable with his long-range mix-up patterns. It's all on read.

2) What do you mean by his corner game not being that scary? It is one of the most fearsome I've ever dealt with. Nobody wants to be cornered by him - at all.
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
I don't see how Reptile's corner game can win simply win him a game. He has to guess whether to jump over the shadows or D4 the UpKnee. Also, Noob's Wall Trap options beat all his wakeups(Except EX Dash), so all he has to do is look out for a jump.
I'm going off what I interpreted here;
Assuming you mean Reptile being cornered, Noob has to guess whether Reptile is going to dash a blocked poke, a whiffed Upknee, etc. I'm pretty sure the gap in his D3/D1 into an Upknee, on block, is big enough to be dashed in between, which puts you in the corner.
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
Great post. The only two things I disagree with are:

1) Jumping is not the best way to get in on Noob Saibot. You'll likely get anti-aired by either a Shadow Upknee or standing 2. This will only work if he becomes predictable with his long-range mix-up patterns. It's all on read.

2) What do you mean by his corner game not being that scary? It is one of the most fearsome I've ever dealt with. Nobody wants to be cornered by him - at all.
The only fearsome part about his corner game is his damage. The rest is a bunch of guessing with obvious holes in between it. See above post for an example.

The jumping part is full screen, and in Reptile's case, yes it is. Jumping a full screen shadow gives you a free dash which lets you either jump in on him again, D4 and stuff an incoming Upknee, or just dash a second time for a guaranteed 11% and set up a forceball.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
But again, it only works if the Noob has no idea how predictable their shadow tossing is.
 

Vocket

Day 1 Phenomenal Teth-Adam Player
How exactly does reptile dominate upclose. His main pressure tool is 321 and 3 starts at 13 frames. Noob has good options to get out with his 10 frame 2 (though 212 is prone to whiffing) and his 11 frame 1. Also noob's d3 is above average and you can always do the ghetto mixup between d3 and shadow tackle to get out. Finally, you can't abuse d4 against noob because he can whiff punish with tackle each time.

The only that makes reptile rushdown good is how much he can abuse elbow dash, with noob having poor punishes, and the fact that it is the only thing that grants him forceball pressure. Reptile's dash also ensures noob won't be mindless spamming upknee like he can in some matches.