General/Other Raven's Normals

[ZeroEffect]

So I just started playing this game, and settled on Raven as my character. So far, while I know combos/setups etc, I have no idea how to play with her normals. It feels like every other character has normals that are faster, better ranged, better frames, anti-air, or some combination of the four.

What kind of strategy would one use when in close quarters with her? I realize she's better played as a keepaway/counter zoning character, but your opponent will get in eventually. So there's gotta be a way to defend yourself.

 

[Zoidberg747]

F222 has.great range, is safe
223 has great range, is plus on block
11 string is fast and can lead to combos
B1 string is low and can lead to combos
Easier to pressure using j3 which is plus on block.

 

[ZeroEffect]

F222 has.great range, is safe
223 has great range, is plus on block
11 string is fast and can lead to combos
B1 string is low and can lead to combos
Easier to pressure using j3 which is plus on block.

223 is plus huh? Ok that's worth looking into more.
As for the others, I run into a problem where my fast "get off me" buttons always lose out in range. Like say, I block a string that pushes me back even a little bit. My 11, B1, or D1 fastest options are all taken away. I tend to try to throw out F222/F2,2,U1 or B23 from about mid-distance since they move her forward. (B23 also seems to be a great way to link her trait)
F222 I believe is 0 on block if I remember right.

 

[Sami]

Just a warning that 223 has a gap between 2 and 3 which gets blown up by parries and instant armour attacks (mostly supers). Opponents can back-dash out as well but can't punish after.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Just a warning that 223 has a gap between 2 and 3 which gets blown up by parries and instant armour attacks (mostly supers). Opponents can back-dash out as well but can't punish after.

Yeah i was trying to see if there were ways to get out of it between hits, and found that you could super out. Didn't try Batman or frost parries though.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Also, wtf do you anti-air with? I try to Soul Crush but it always gets stuffed? same with D2

 

[Zoidberg747]

Also, wtf do you anti-air with? I try to Soul Crush but it always gets stuffed? same with D2

Backdash and punish, or singularity

 

[ZeroEffect]

Backdash? Won't that get you hit by the jump in move? i thought it was unsafe.

 

[Sami]

Backdash? Won't that get you hit by the jump in move? i thought it was unsafe.

Not if you time it right. Of course, time it wrong and you get put into full combo. Singularity works against highly telegraphed jump-ins but will wiff against one that's properly spaced.

As to what Raven actually does vs. jump-ins: she hopes she's blocking in the right direction as her AA is surprisingly poor. Teleport is usually beaten on jump-in too due to the long start-up that seemingly raises her hitbox (just what you want from an anti-air! ).

If you read it, point blank demon pillar has a big enough hitbox (it covers all of Raven) to beat jump-ins and even cross-ups, but due to the start-up time it's incredibly hard to do it on reaction, and like the teleport it will probably be blown up.

 

[ZeroEffect]

Bleh... so in other words, she really doesn't have a good tool to stop it. At least pillars are safe to throw out, provided I have trait activated.

 

[Grolarbears]

B2 is an insanely great whiff punisher and I believe it technically low crushes. If you watch her feet, she moves them back as she does the normal. I've consistently whiff punished Aquaman's F2 with it, and that is insane.

If you are worried about an interrupt in 223, then simply do 22 for +3, I believe. Then, mix in 223 later for either a hit confirm or block advantage, imo.

My best suggestion against jump-ins (and this may not work on every character, it depends on the normal) is to cross under your opponent and use singularity from there. If you learn the timing on AA soul crush, that could be pretty serious, too. Her D2 can work against some characters, but characters like Harley who have an insane air normal (her jumping 2) will get free jump ins if you don't space yourself against it.

Her F1, 3 is quite good except for her F1 being high, which is why I usually space it for the 3 to land instead, leaving her at +3 on block or a knockdown.

I think her 3 is good but I need to test it more.

Her F3 has great range and affects her hitbox. B3 does this more so, making it a great whiff punisher on read.

Standing 1 is a tool for interruption. Simple whiff punishing, imo, or if you want to make some space with 113, but it is negative. Not sure how good that string is in general.

All of her jump normals are good. You just have to find the situations in which it is best to apply them.

Think that's all for now. She has good defensive footsies and can outspace other characters pretty well.

 

[ZeroEffect]

I think her 3 is good but I need to test it more..

Isn't her 3 (double kick move) unsafe on block? Maybe I was reading the frame data wrong but I thought it was. The first part is insanely short ranged though, so I'm not sure where I'd apply this even if it was safe.

Yeah I eventually learned to mix up 22 with 223 and whatever followups I have (d1, F22 stuff, etc). If only D2 had better priority like MK9 Uppercuts, lol.

Nowadays I'm using B2 and F22 as the whiff punishers after a backwalk. I kinda wish her B1 had better range, but guess I'll just have to work with what I have.

 

[Grolarbears]

Isn't her 3 (double kick move) unsafe on block? Maybe I was reading the frame data wrong but I thought it was. The first part is insanely short ranged though, so I'm not sure where I'd apply this even if it was safe.

Yeah I eventually learned to mix up 22 with 223 and whatever followups I have (d1, F22 stuff, etc). If only D2 had better priority like MK9 Uppercuts, lol.

Nowadays I'm using B2 and F22 as the whiff punishers after a backwalk. I kinda wish her B1 had better range, but guess I'll just have to work with what I have.

Oh right. Her B1,2,3 is actually quite good as a whole string. Just long duration.

3's frame data has been fixed. It is now 0 on block according to the data. I knew it wasn't as negative as it was saying, though. Just didn't feel like it. It's not a bad move to throw out when someone is advancing on you hard and they don't have long range aggressive poke like Aquaman. It is hit confirmable into combo, just a weird special cancel, and on block it makes good space. It's just another tool right now, imo, not a backbone to her game or anything.

 

[Sami]

edit: lol beaten. this is what happens when I take 41 minutes to write a reply

Isn't her 3 (double kick move) unsafe on block? Maybe I was reading the frame data wrong but I thought it was. The first part is insanely short ranged though, so I'm not sure where I'd apply this even if it was safe.

Multi-hit moves were bugged until the latest patch. The game now correctly displays it as 0 on block.

As for its uses:

• Used after cross-up jump-in attacks where even you can't guess the direction. Just hit 3 and the move will come out regardless of what side you land on. F2 after cross-up can lead to B2 if your reactions are terrible.
• Pretty good damage (7.85% in total).
• Low combo damage scaling. Only reduces follow-up combo damage by 9.75% compared to the approx 35% of 223, 28% of f222 (higher if the opponent is already in the air), approx 19% of 22. Not much of a benefit in short combos, but gets better as the combo extends.
• Unlike 223, there's no gaps so you don't need to worry about being parried in the middle of the combo. Annoyingly, there is a gap between the second hit and Singularity (but not Soul Crush) so it can be back-dashed out of or punished with super moves.

Not the best move in the world, but any time you were going to do 223 into a special, 3 into the same special will net you more damage.

223, db2 = 15% damage
3 (1 hit)~db2 = 14% damage and far better scaling than 223
3 (2 hits)~db2 = 17% damage and still far better scaling than 223

The later in a combo it appears the less of an effect the reduced damage scaling has. Use it early or don't bother. After ending a combo with f22u1 if I feel like aiming for more damage by burning meter, I used to follow up with:

ji2 (no idea which side this will hit), 22~db2 MB, b3, ji2, f22u1 for 35%.​

However, I recently switched to:

ji2 (again, no idea) 3 (both hits)~db2 MB, b3 ji2, f22u1 for 41%.​

6% more damage for the same number of hits and 1 less input . There are probably more optimal just-frame combos, but I'm comfortable with this one and can do it reliably. The only time it ever goes wrong is if I input db2 too early and cancel the first hit of 3 instead, but all that does is drop the damage down to 40% which is still more than the previous one.

edit: oh lordy lordy, finally made ji3 connect after the b3 into f22u1. Now at 43% \o/

 

[Sami]

Oh lawd, ji2, 3 (both)~db2 sets up a perfect ambiguous cross-up exactly like a f22u1 would (can't tech-roll out of db2) and does more damage than my previous "I have no idea which side this will land on" ji2 meter-less combo. A whole 1% more, but a) it's easier and b) I can choose at will to MB and extend without losing any damage.

 

[ZeroEffect]

I've been looking into setups that make db2 put them far enough away for the cross up setups. Maybe 3>db2 is the answer for this in midscreen combos. Now do you wait a bit after 3 hits to go into db2? Cause I've been accidentally cancelling only the first hit of her 3.

 

[Sami]

I've been looking into setups that make db2 put them far enough away for the cross up setups. Maybe 3>db2 is the answer for this in midscreen combos. Now do you wait a bit after 3 hits to go into db2? Cause I've been accidentally cancelling only the first hit of her 3.

Got to wait. You can buffer the down and back ready, but don't hit 2 until you see her start the animation for the second kick. Puts them at perfect cross-up distance.

 

[Grolarbears]

Oh lawd, ji2, 3 (both)~db2 sets up a perfect ambiguous cross-up exactly like a f22u1 would (can't tech-roll out of db2) and does more damage than my previous "I have no idea which side this will land on" ji2 meter-less combo. A whole 1% more, but a) it's easier and b) I can choose at will to MB and extend without losing any damage.

This is a step in the right direction. Good observation.

 

[Marcan3308]

This is a great thread. Just picked up Raven and never thought of ending with F22U1. Thanks for the hard work guys! Haha.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2