Tech Raven 50/50 with Instant J1

[Blind_Ducky]

Didn't see this anywhere but I probably didn't look hard enough and will feel stupid about this later but oh well.

So yeah instant neutral jump 1 gives her a 9-10 frame overhead. It works on every character in the game, but one some it's ridiculously hard to do. It's the hardest to do on Flash, Deathstroke, and Ares. Difficulty depends on the characters crouching hitbox. For obvious reasons it's easiest to do on Lex. Raven can't combo off instant jump 1 but she can throw the opponent or do 223, b2, etc.

There are a couple normals that put Raven at enough advantage and have a hit stun animation that makes the opponents character have basically a standing hitbox that allows Raven to get a low/overhead 50/50. The most practical situation for this is if you are punishing an unsafe move. For example, Lex does corps charge so you punish with the normal you want to use and then you go into the 50/50. I'd rather go for a guaranteed 40% combo, but if you want to mess with the opponents head a little this isn't a terrible idea.

F2 midscreen and in the corner works.
B2 in the corner works.
11 in the corner works.

However there is a fairly practical set up for it.

In demon stance, Raven's db2 becomes a full screen pull thingy that keeps the opponent floating in the air for a combo when it is meter burned. If you don't combo off it and let the opponent just drop, there is a window where the opponents hitbox is basically standing. This gives the same set up as the normals on hit, but this situation is easier to get into.

Unfortunately Raven can't do instant jump 1 again after another one because it pushes the opponent back a little, unless they're in the corner.

Edit: Thanks to Sami I tested b3 on block into ij1. B3 has a standing block stun animation. Mid screen there is too much pushback for the j1 to hit but in the corner there is almost no pushback so you get a free overhead/low 50/50!

Well practice mode is dumb because it blocks mids standing even if you set it to crouch so the standing hitbox thing on block with b3 only happens if they stand block it. When they crouch block it there isno block stun animations or pushback so if a b3 is blocked mid screen the 50/50 is possible.

 

[Spinky]

Did I just see the words "Raven" and "50/50" in the same sentence?

*SPLUUUUUUURT*

 

[i4ni_Reaver]

i dont think you can combo after the j1. i think it would be easier to just do the forward 3.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

i dont think you can combo after the j1. i think it would be easier to just do the forward 3.

Sorry to sound rude but did you read the thread?

 

[TarkatanDentist]

i dont think you can combo after the j1. i think it would be easier to just do the forward 3.

Which can be blocked on reaction...

 

[Sami]

Tried to work this out a while ago to deal with people who are already crouching and came to the conclusion that it was pretty useless as the jump 1 usually wiffed unless you did a perfect just-frame (there's no buffering of the 1 when jumping, so do it even 1 frame too early and the move won't come out). Didn't think to try and find setups that left the opponent standing to force them to block correctly. Good job

As a wiff punisher I would be far more inclined to use a reliable punish, but for punishing blocked moves where the opponent is at a slight block disadvantage (i.e. they can't counter-poke before the b1 or j1 hits) then this is could be very useful.

Does a blocked b3 allow you to use this setup? You're at massive + frames, so many in fact that instant jump 1 should hit while they're still in blockstun and there's no move (besides the odd super) that can punish the gap between a blocked b3 followed by b1. Blocked b3 was always one of my favourite frame traps as it let her follow up with pretty much anything and most people didn't realise that she was at +11 off it.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Tried to work this out a while ago to deal with people who are already crouching and came to the conclusion that it was pretty useless as the jump 1 usually wiffed unless you did a perfect just-frame (there's no buffering of the 1 when jumping, so do it even 1 frame too early and the move won't come out). Didn't think to try and find setups that left the opponent standing to force them to block correctly. Good job

As a wiff punisher I would be far more inclined to use a reliable punish, but for punishing blocked moves where the opponent is at a slight block disadvantage (i.e. they can't counter-poke before the b1 or j1 hits) then this is could be very useful.

Does a blocked b3 allow you to use this setup? You're at massive + frames, so many in fact that instant jump 1 should hit while they're still in blockstun and there's no move (besides the odd super) that can punish the gap between a blocked b3 followed by b1. Blocked b3 was always one of my favourite frame traps as it let her follow up with pretty much anything and most people didn't realise that she was at +11 off it.

Did not test the slight block advantage or the b3 +11 so thank you for that! After I get off chefs stream I will go test that out.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Tried to work this out a while ago to deal with people who are already crouching and came to the conclusion that it was pretty useless as the jump 1 usually wiffed unless you did a perfect just-frame (there's no buffering of the 1 when jumping, so do it even 1 frame too early and the move won't come out). Didn't think to try and find setups that left the opponent standing to force them to block correctly. Good job

As a wiff punisher I would be far more inclined to use a reliable punish, but for punishing blocked moves where the opponent is at a slight block disadvantage (i.e. they can't counter-poke before the b1 or j1 hits) then this is could be very useful.

Does a blocked b3 allow you to use this setup? You're at massive + frames, so many in fact that instant jump 1 should hit while they're still in blockstun and there's no move (besides the odd super) that can punish the gap between a blocked b3 followed by b1. Blocked b3 was always one of my favourite frame traps as it let her follow up with pretty much anything and most people didn't realise that she was at +11 off it.

I tested the b3 and mid screen it won't work because there's too much push back but in the corner the block stun animation is standing so you get a 50/50 off of it on block. Thank you for telling me about this! I'll test more stuff thats negative on block tomorrow or today I guess since I've been up all night.

 

[afrozilla86]

Saw the 50/50 and got my hopes up cause that was the element she was missing for me, but still a good corner thought if I don't want them wagering.

 

[Sami]

Edit: Thanks to Sami I tested b3 on block into ij1. B3 has a standing block stun animation. Mid screen there is too much pushback for the j1 to hit but in the corner there is almost no pushback so you get a free overhead/low 50/50!

Because Raven needed even more corner shenanigans

 

[The_SNKE]

I like how Flash is the practice dummy...fucker

 

[Sami]

Blind_Man when you wake up...

A blocked late jump 1/2 (maybe 3) should also give you another 50/50 attempt. Depending on what the actual block-stun of j1/j2/j3 is (lol frame data) then you may be able to use this to put the opponent into another guessing game if they correctly an ambiguous cross-up: first they need to guess left/right, and then stand/crouch.


edit: now going into pure "I haven't played for over a month" guesswork territory. The ij1 is unsafe on block and can't be comboed on hit. Can you use the dive-kick interactable to make the blocked version safe and add more damage to the hit version? Not sure if that interactable can be used if you've already hit the opponent with an air-normal.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Blind_Man when you wake up...

A blocked late jump 1/2 (maybe 3) should also give you another 50/50 attempt. Depending on what the actual block-stun of j1/j2/j3 is (lol frame data) then you may be able to use this to put the opponent into another guessing game if they correctly an ambiguous cross-up: first they need to guess left/right, and then stand/crouch.


edit: now going into pure "I haven't played for over a month" guesswork territory. The ij1 is unsafe on block and can't be comboed on hit. Can you use the dive-kick interactable to make the blocked version safe and add more damage to the hit version? Not sure if that interactable can be used if you've already hit the opponent with an air-normal.

Yeah I heard about and I didn't test it either but I don't see why it wouldn't work. I'll test out the intractable today, I also don't see why this wouldn't work either.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Sami once again thank you! Air interactibles after ij1 work and the divekick combos on hit for 19%.

 

[Rondell Allard]

I used to do this with J2 since you can combo from it but its character specific . And i tended to stop practising it and adopted more cross ups since the timing is kind of tight . Think i'll start back though and find out who it works on consistently.

 

[Owerbart]

What its really weird is how you can buffer moves after a instant nj1.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

What its really weird is how you can buffer moves after a instant nj1.

I noticed this too...as that it does it automatically after i connects...even with Ares and MMH...it seems that everyone is affected...

 

[Sami]

Common knowledge (and also how the anti-Scorpion wake up option select works).

1. Do jump 1 or jump 2 (neutral/in/out).
2. Once it connects (either hit, blocked, armoured, invincible'd), press another input while still in the air.
3. When you land, that new input will come out instantly and will always combo link unless the opponent leaves recovery frames first. Works for 1/2/3/4 with and without additional directions (b1, d2, etc) too. Can't remember if it will buffer specials.

Note that this does not work on jump 3 as the buffering is turned off. The advantage you get instead is first-hit juggle.

 

[Sprint]

I meant to post this a while back, but I haven't played for a while and never got around to it:

The first step is to make the opponent block a very late j.3. You need to be within a few frames of landing when it is blocked. Then, if the opponent starts holding down afterwards you can hit them with...

jf.3(blocked) > jf.3
Works on everyone except Batgirl, Catwoman and Green Arrow.

jf.3(blocked) > jf.2 (combo into 1,1 on hit)
Works reliably on Ares, Black Adam, Doomsday, Green Lantern, Joker, Lex, Raven, Sinestro, Superman, Zod.

jf.2 has a weird hitbox that makes it whiff behind the heads of a lot of characters. If the blocked jf.3 is used as a crossup or is spaced as far away as possible then the above will work on a few more characters, but I can't remember who.

Corner jf.3(blocked) > jn.2 (combo into 1,1 on hit)
Works on everyone except Batgirl and Catwoman, but the timing is very strict on small hitboxes like Green Arrow.


There are quite a few problems with this setup:
- If the opponent performs a crouching move, you will completely whiff and can be punished by a full combo.
- If the opponent blocks it, you're wide open for a full combo.
- If the opponent gets hit by the initial j.3, you won't be able to combo off it.

...That's a lot of ifs.

 

[Sprint]

Addendum. This is related to jump-ins so I'll post it in here. It's also not specific to Raven, but meh.

After doing a j.1 or j.2, instead of buffering your followup while still in the air, input it during your landing recovery frames.
- If the jump attack hits you can cancel the landing recovery into an attack. It will combo as normal.
- If the jump attack is blocked then you cannot cancel your landing recovery and the attack will not come out.

Example: j.2 > 3 ~ throw ~ db2
Pressing 3 during your landing recovery means it will only come out if j.2 hits. If j.2 is blocked then 3 does not come out and you get an OS throw, otherwise you combo into db2.

The timing is pretty strict. Too fast and your attack comes out on block, too late and it won't combo on hit.
Get it right and you can input what would normally be a really dumb hitconfirm (i.e. negative on block) safe in the knowledge that it won't come out if the opponent blocks your jump-in.

 

[Sami]

Get it right and you can input what would normally be a really dumb hitconfirm (i.e. negative on block) safe in the knowledge that it won't come out if the opponent blocks your jump-in.

Wow... awesome find.