Quick Canary Neutral Rundown

[HemingfordGrey]

As a warning, coming from a primarily Tekken, KOF, and SF background, my assumptions about NRS game neutral and footsies might not be as seasoned. This is what I've thought of so far and could change with the development of new tech and or balance patches.

Quick Summary: (Longer explanation further in thread) Based on the current tools we have for Canary, her neutral revolves around poking with strings and hit confirming them into either her lvl 1 trait or her command rolls on block and into her combo starters either bf2 or db2 on hit. Her neutral also seems better suited to conditioning and reading the other players tendencies and mindset which can lead her to suffer in online matches with randoms. She is an inherently risky character because she is required in most situations to get up close.

Changelog
5/21/17: Added section Neutral vs Turtles, Added section The Importance of a Good Neutral Game, Added a bullet under point under "Things a good Canary will have"
5/24/17: Added section How to Develop Your Own Neutral

The Importance of a Good Neutral Game

High damage combos, mixups, etc. mean nothing if you are not in the position to establish them. A good neutral game means you are aware how to position and maneuver through the space onstage. A good player should know certain things about neutral with Canary

1. Goal: Be in range to use normals to establish setplay.
2. Acknowledge that you will have to use resources (time,meter, and life) to get in. Efficient and effective use of these resources is the key to winning.
3. The neutral is like water. The natural tendency is the push and pull between players. Understand the concept that you can only push so much with Canary until you have to respect the other player's turn.
4. Mentality can dictate the match. Patience and perseverance win more games than blindly charging forward.
5. Being good at neutral requires a lot of hours into the game to learn matchups, understanding Canary, and to establish a style of neutral that works for you, the player.

How to Develop Your Own Neutral

• Developing a neutral game that suits you is the best way to become better at fighting games in general. It is very possible to play Canary as a defensive or offensive character as long as you remember her limitations.
• Learn and get comfortable with the movement of the character. Go over forward and backward walkspeed, foward and back dash time and distance, and jump arcs. Becoming familiar with the Canary's mobility is key to controlling the neutral space.
• Become familiar with all notable normals. Notable normals include but are not limited to those with quick startup, + or safe on block, forward advancing, low profiling, etc. It is not enough to only look at the frame data for this step. You must go to the lab and use the moves in order to get familiar with the hitbox and hurtbox. These will allow you to understand the practical uses of certain normals such as whiff punishing, anti-airing, etc.

General Midscreen:

1. Combos that won't end the game should be formulated for hard knockdown, corner carry, or an ender that allows you to safely dash or command dash for meaty pressure.
2. Her lab frame data shows that most of her strings are negative causing me a lot of confusion at first. However, most of her strings give the player enough time to confirm block or hit.
3. Back and forward command roll on block can be used to get to safety or for a risky left right situation depending on the distance of the canceled string. The forward and back command rolls can be read and punished, but that is where lvl 1 trait which is +3 on block comes into play.
4. Depending on the enemy, you can also use parry and command roll for meter building a la KOF as long as the distance is safe. Therefore, you will hardly ever be meterless.

General Corner: Canary becomes much stronger in the corner with a fair amount of left/right and low/overhead mixups.

1. She has 2~3, delay3 etc. mixup for low/overhead/stagger mixups.
2. She has the double overhead jump to db2 far/close overhead mixups.
3. She also has command roll and meter burn roll left right mixups in the corner which can put you on either in front or behind the enemy depending on the string or timing (Think Karin corner jab command dash reset from SF or KOF roll mixups.) These roll mixups are good because they can sometimes be visually left/right ambiguous. In general, the enemy should only last 3-5 combos max if your combo optimization and reads are good.

General Midscreen vs Zoners:

1. Don't be afraid to take some chip damage and wait for lvl 3 trait. Once you get the lvl 3 in, you can go to the general neutral gameplan.
2. This strategy doesn't work nearly as well vs zoners with quick projectiles. If you are hit while doing lvl 3, the scream dissipates and has the potential not to connect or the hitstun won't allow you to capitalize.
3. Deadshot is a big problem for her because he can drain meter with his bullets and his bullets have quick recovery that makes it hard for her to capitalize on trait.

Neutral vs Turtles

1. The turtle will look to capitalize upon you making mistakes. For example, a player who primarily plays keep away, waits for you to whiff normals, and whiff punishes you with a forward advancing string can be defined as a turtle. Therefore, you need to think twice about which normals you throw out as well as having matchup knowledge.
2. Block heavy: Using various mixup tools to create pressure like frametraps and throws as well as not overextending is key to opening up the enemy and minimizing risk.
3. Backdash Heavy: We have a good amount of tools for dealing with backdash heavy players. Here are a few options to punish backdashes after blockstrings;

• Hold trait after a blockstring and punish backdash with either lvl 2 or lvl 3
• Blocked b1 >forward roll >1
• Blocked 2 > forward roll > 1
• Blocked 3 > forward roll > 1 (can sideswitch on characters with slower backdashes)
• There a quite a few other options. The key is learning the character matchup. For example, some of these can be spacing dependent or not work with Catwoman.

Things a good Canary or player in general will have:

1. Footsies: Knowing the optimal space to stand based on your normals and their normals for whiff punishing and or approaching for pressure.
2. Knowledge of Frame data: Allowing optimal capitalization for punishable moves from the enemy as well as knowing when it is your turn or their turn to start pressure.
3. Risk assessment: Everything in fighting games from time, health, and meter is a resource. Acknowledging when and formulating how much to use of each resource should allow more favorable trades.
4. Literacy: Learning how to read the opponent (disregard online matches) in terms of how defensive/offensive they are, do they wakeup a lot(?), etc. will allow you to become a more competitive player.
5. Yin and Yang: Players should have a balance between playing from the calculated mind and the passionate heart. In others words, adopt a flexible mental state which will allow you to both DP sometimes on wakeup and block sometimes on wakeup.
6. Know how to properly lose. Accept loss and breakdown the match to see what went wrong and what could have been changed. The worst way to lose is to get mad and learn nothing.

 

[nugava]

I can't fucking hit confirm 23 and 212... I just do bf2 after... Whatever... Yolo... If you're genious like you, you block confirm into the back roll and you hit confirm into whatever...

 

[primedirective]

This is some really good info. This should be incorporated into the Ultimate Canary Thread to be further discusses and built upon.

 

[HemingfordGrey]

This is some really good info. This should be incorporated into the Ultimate Canary Thread to be further discusses and built upon.

Thanks. This was just meant to be a quick rundown, but I have more in depth tech for setplay which I can post in a different thread once I feel I have a solid amount of content.

 

[WonderMenace]

As a noob to fighting games, but spending countless hours playing, watching tutorials, reading online...I have a question.

How do you actually utilize mixups and create "pressure" against your opponent? I understand mixups/frametraps/vortex lead to guessing but how do you use this in terms of combos and creating pressure? I watch every tutorial I can everywhere but no one actually explains/shows the the use of it. It's getting me confused. Like how do I even use mixups? What are block strings? Stuff like that no one really explains well?

 

[HemingfordGrey]

As a noob to fighting games, but spending countless hours playing, watching tutorials, reading online...I have a question.

How do you actually utilize mixups and create "pressure" against your opponent? I understand mixups/frametraps/vortex lead to guessing but how do you use this in terms of combos and creating pressure? I watch every tutorial I can everywhere but no one actually explains/shows the the use of it. It's getting me confused. Like how do I even use mixups? What are block strings? Stuff like that no one really explains well?

The best way to answer this in a single thread would be knowing frame data. (Although there are many other things) Luckily this game gives most of the data in the practice mode. So let's go over a quick example with her basic jab or 1. The move has a 6 frame startup, and is +2 on block. Now take an imaginary character with a jab that has 6 frame startup.

Since you already understand frame traps, you should already know if Canary jabs the opponent, the opponent will get hit if both characters try to jab again. This jab would allow her to go into her 1,1,2 string which you can use to start your setplay.

Now say that the other player understands that he cannot press jab because he will get hit and will decide to block. Now that he's blocking, you can go for an overhead, low, or throw to open him up to your setplay. You can also jab again to create the same situation. This is how you create pressure. The opponent can only look out for so many things before getting opened up.

Utilizing mixups is much more efficient when you have this type of pressure instilled in the opponent. For example, if the opponent is already looking out for the overhead/low/throw, how much harder would it be for the opponent to react to an overhead/low where it is ambiguous which side (left or right) Canary is on? Now that opponent has to be aware of twice the amount of openers. This is why understanding your opponents mindset and how to pressure them is important. This is also why online games can seem so random because there is no time allowed to create these mindgames.

Block strings are another way of talking about the frame advantage of strings on block. For the purposes of this neutral rundown thread, because most of Canary's block strings are negative, they should be canceled into her command rolls or her lvl 1 trait which is +3 on block.

The situation I explained in here is one of the most basic situations and becomes a lot more complicated in real matches. However, the general concept of what I explained is what is important rather than the actual situation I gave.

There is a lot to explain regarding this stuff, and I could give a lot more information if you want. However, this is the short explanation to your questions.

 

[WonderMenace]

The best way to answer this in a single thread would be knowing frame data. (Although there are many other things) Luckily this game gives most of the data in the practice mode. So let's go over a quick example with her basic jab or 1. The move has a 6 frame startup, and is +2 on block. Now take an imaginary character with a jab that has 6 frame startup.

Since you already understand frame traps, you should already know if Canary jabs the opponent, the opponent will get hit if both characters try to jab again. This jab would allow her to go into her 1,1,2 string which you can use to start your setplay.

Now say that the other player understands that he cannot press jab because he will get hit and will decide to block. Now that he's blocking, you can go for an overhead, low, or throw to open him up to your setplay. You can also jab again to create the same situation. This is how you create pressure. The opponent can only look out for so many things before getting opened up.

Utilizing mixups is much more efficient when you have this type of pressure instilled in the opponent. For example, if the opponent is already looking out for the overhead/low/throw, how much harder would it be for the opponent to react to an overhead/low where it is ambiguous which side (left or right) Canary is on? Now that opponent has to be aware of twice the amount of openers. This is why understanding your opponents mindset and how to pressure them is important. This is also why online games can seem so random because there is no time allowed to create these mindgames.

Block strings are another way of talking about the frame advantage of strings on block. For the purposes of this neutral rundown thread, because most of Canary's block strings are negative, they should be canceled into her command rolls or her lvl 1 trait which is +3 on block.

The situation I explained in here is one of the most basic situations and becomes a lot more complicated in real matches. However, the general concept of what I explained is what is important rather than the actual situation I gave.

There is a lot to explain regarding this stuff, and I could give a lot more information if you want. However, this is the short explanation to your questions.

This was great, thank you for the taking the time to reply. I'm willing to learn so if you don't mind explaining more if you have the time, but no biggie. It helped clarify pressure.

Edit: After re-reading your first post, could you re-clarify this for me?
"

1. She has 2~3, delay3 etc. mixup for low/overhead/stagger mixups.
2. She has the double overhead jump to db2 far/close overhead mixups"

 

[HemingfordGrey]

This was great, thank you for the taking the time to reply. I'm willing to learn so if you don't mind explaining more if you have the time, but no biggie. It helped clarify pressure.

Edit: After re-reading your first post, could you re-clarify this for me?
"

1. She has 2~3, delay3 etc. mixup for low/overhead/stagger mixups.
2. She has the double overhead jump to db2 far/close overhead mixups"

The best way to learn would be to analyze high level matches with someone who understands these concepts. Unless you play other fighting games, your best bet right would be to watch old injustice matches with good commentary or wait for IJ2 tournaments when players have somewhat gotten used to the game.

Regarding your other questions, I won't go too deep into explanations since this is a thread mainly talking about her neutral rather than the mixups themselves.

1. When you hit with her 2, you can hold up right after hitting 2 and she will hold her leg up in the air. You can hold it for a good amount of time before she puts it back down. At any point in time she holds her leg up, you can press 1 causing you to go into a low, mid string which is special cancelable on both hits, or you can press 3 causing you to go into a special cancelable overhead, or you can press u3 for a mid launcher, or you can press 3,3 which leads to a hard knockdown. The hard knockdown can be used in midscreen to command roll forward to reset neutral spacing or if used in the corner can be used to command roll for the ambiguous left right spacing. The ability to go low, overhead, mid launcher after her 2 which is +8 on hit is made even scarier because the delay works as a restand that allows you to create this specific mixup.
2. You can cancel her j1 and j2 into her db2. In the corner, depending on the height and normal from which you hit and cancel from, the db2 can land on either side depending on which distance db2 you use. If you couple this with her mb bf2 and the ability to choose the distance you have access to even more mixups. For example, in the corner if you mb bf2 and choose the far distance version by holding forward, you can use j3 to continue the combo that does more damage or you can use j2 which doesn't combo but requires them to block that overhead or take the reset. If you add the ability create another left/right overhead mixup by canceling into db2 after that j2 even on block, it's just another thing they need to look out for.

 

[TrapGodFax]

Am loving this thread @HemingfordGrey good stuff am thinking about making her my main due to her cool play style and the mix up potential. keep the info coming this is really helping out

 

[SHAOLIN]

I like this guy, hope he stick around.

 

[Darko82]

I can't fucking hit confirm 23 and 212... I just do bf2 after... Whatever... Yolo... If you're genious like you, you block confirm into the back roll and you hit confirm into whatever...

Since 2 staggers on hit, you can confirm 21 by pressing up after 2 then confirm for 1. So, you press 2, tap up, *confirm hit stagger*, then press 1. You have more time than you might think.

Unfortunately this doesn't work for 23.

 

[knewaccount1]

Good notes. The one thing I found very useful was "optimize your combos to either knock down or corner carry". That alone single highhandedly improved my mix up game. As Canary you'll find yourself chasing your opponent for 80% of the match since every pretty much zones. Placing them in a hard knock down after every combo forces them to take the mix up and not roll away. Ending with 3-3 I find it to be most effective. The timing for the follow up will vary depending if it was an air juggle 3-3 or a grounded 3-3. Another thing I stopped doing is throwing out canary cry every combo. Saving it for certain match ups is better than spending it for the extra 50-100 damage.

Also this is probably known by now, but Canary Drop resets are high risk/reward but it really pays off when you land it. Most people won't block it, and if you do condition them to block it, you can just switch sides on them.

BTW, is it me or those target-combo > dbMB do more damage than anything else and is easier to confirm.

 

[HemingfordGrey]

Good notes. The one thing I found very useful was "optimize your combos to either knock down or corner carry". That alone single highhandedly improved my mix up game. As Canary you'll find yourself chasing your opponent for 80% of the match since every pretty much zones. Placing them in a hard knock down after every combo forces them to take the mix up and not roll away. Ending with 3-3 I find it to be most effective. The timing for the follow up will vary depending if it was an air juggle 3-3 or a grounded 3-3. Another thing I stopped doing is throwing out canary cry every combo. Saving it for certain match ups is better than spending it for the extra 50-100 damage.

Also this is probably known by now, but Canary Drop resets are high risk/reward but it really pays off when you land it. Most people won't block it, and if you do condition them to block it, you can just switch sides on them.

BTW, is it me or those target-combo > dbMB do more damage than anything else and is easier to confirm.

Fighting game players learn from both fighting and talking. Glad it helped. Like you said there are quite a few zoning minded players out there. However, I suspect that as people learn their character and enemy zoning patterns more, pure zoners will become less prevalent. This is when I imagine high pressure/mixup characters such as Cheetah and Canary or high setup characters such as Joker and Cold will start to rise Once this happens, having a good neutral becomes even more crucial when trying to get in and when trying not get clipped.

Speculating at the competitive level, I can see Black Canary performing well, but the results will depend highly on the skill of the player. Unlike Catwoman and Batman with both solid pressure and zoning tools or Ivy and Atrocitus with layered setups, Black Canary can seems like a more honest character. Time will tell all of these things in the end. I'm not particularly attached to Canary, but I found her toolset interesting which led me to create this thread. However, I will spend more time in the lab with her looking for more tech such as possible option selects, etc.

 

[HemingfordGrey]

Am loving this thread @HemingfordGrey good stuff am thinking about making her my main due to her cool play style and the mix up potential. keep the info coming this is really helping out

Glad it helped. I'll be updating it as I notice more things. This is primarily a thread explaining the theory and practice behind playing Canary rather than a tech/combo database. If you are interested in the latter, there will be more to come. Good luck and have fun learning Canary, and let me know if you have any questions regarding her playstyle. If it is useful enough, I'll include them in the main thread.