Strategy - Mileena question about using F3

[Damaja325]

so i was just wondering... we all know that F3 is incredibly slow with its 33 frame startup making it somewhat difficult to pull off against adept players. what i want to ask you fellow Mileena players is, when do you use it? what situations do u find out give u certainty that it might/will connect? sometimes i try to go a round without using it so the player won't realize i'm trying to do it. however, no matter how hard i try to be unpredictable with it and condition my opponent to block low, it always gets reacted to. *guh, wish the darn move got a buff* anyway, do u guys have success with it or do u just avoid it entirely?

 

[JerzeyReign]

I try it after a hard knockdown on a player with no meter or wake up game.

 

[DJ L Toro]

after an anti-air uppercut.

 

[DJ L Toro]

I try it after a hard knockdown on a player with no meter or wake up game.

this isnt guaranteed because even after her hard knockdowns it's like a 12 frame gap (if im not mistaken 21u4 is +21 or 22, and f23b4 isnt really a viable way to set it up imo, plus i dont think it's as plus) anyone but quan chi or goro should just mash buttons as they're getting up and hit you out of it.

 

[sinosleep]

It's a move that's so bad that it comes all the way around to being good cause people simply don't think you're going to do it and wind up getting hit by it. Saltface was landing it on damned good players at evo.

 

[Afk Skinny]

I have a habit of ending a juggle with sai toss then going for it. If I'm feeling super risky I'll Vanish then immediately go for it

 

[xWildx]

I tend to throw it out at max range in footsies once the respect game has been established. I'll also use it on wakeup once I've shown how Mileena can blow through attacks with f1. It shouldn't be your go-to strategy at first though, IMO.

 

[JerzeyReign]

this isnt guaranteed because even after her hard knockdowns it's like a 12 frame gap (if im not mistaken 21u4 is +21 or 22, and f23b4 isnt really a viable way to set it up imo, plus i dont think it's as plus) anyone but quan chi or goro should just mash buttons as they're getting up and hit you out of it.

You can confirm it and it'll be safe (or somewhat safe with a bit of space). I watch Saltface videos daily as I'm grinding my Ravenous out and I picked up when he throws them out. I also run and throw more frequently than others. When I run in once my opponent has been trained, they normally duck if I surprise them and I launch into f3. I really only attempt it if I feel my opponent is flustered, I'm up a game and I'm holding a life lead. Other than that I'm taking my 28-31% combos lol

 

[ZeroEffect]

Man I held out for the longest time, I really did, but I'm beginning to see why this move is just too slow to make use of. The best chance I've gotten to land it is during EX Fade blockstrings where people might try and D3. Sometimes you luck out with it like SaltFace did on stream, and it is good on block, but once an opponent is used to it, it just never hits anymore.

If anything I get more mileage out of having it blocked and mixing up between F344~Roll and F34~EX Roll.

If they won't make it faster, (and let's face it, if they really want to make it workable it'd have to lose almost half the startup time), then it needs to have a little invincibility to get off the ground so it can cleanly jump over low pokes/throws.

 

[Aimdotcom]

ive actually used it a couple of times fullscreen after zoning for a bit, people that rush in, throw it almost immediately . Jumpins/crossovers to f3 starter once in a while. Getting people in the corner for the stylish 50%er (f343,dd3 bf1, 123 bd4 walk back a bit d2, u3 mb, b212+4) or like zero said the low or over head option after the f34(low Sai or ex lowsai as well for mixup). Like previously said its a move that should be thrown in only once or twice a match to almost never. Just remember to keep your opponent guessing and don't overuse the OH slug.

 

[SEN WIIISE]

Short Version of this post:
A few practical Attempt Scenraios:
-On your opponents Delayed Wakeup
-After reading or guessing a block
-When your opponent is rushing
-In place of your mix-up attempt

- - - - -
I think the issue here is that there really is no guaranteed way to set it up without fail.
We should all keep in mind that the success rate of F3 is dependent on your opponents ability to read and react.
That being said, any advice as to how to pull it off is just another trick in the bag.

For starters, my biggest suggestion is trying to attempt it in advantageous situations.
-Health & o/r Meter Advantage*
-While your opponent is stunned or vurnerable(jumping, running in unsafely, etc.)
-Any situation you'd consider worth the risk. (Weigh the pro's of landing it VS. the cons of punishment)
Even though it can be reacted to, it can stuff certain moves that aren't necessarily that weren't fast enough, as well.

F3 is a move that I believe has the "Makoto Effect", as I like to call it.
(For those who don't play SF, Makoto is a character that is based around learning your opponents and reacting accordingly.)
Truth is, though it may be slow af on startup? It's more of a mind-game intended starter.
Your job is not only be surprising, but to be bold about it's application.
You want to optimize your chances with the above things in mind, but keep in mind it's usually risky most of the time.

-Conditioning
How well are you making your opponent respect certain scenarios?
If you have them blocking low a lot, try to find out WHEN and if so, WHY.
Once you have a fix on their reflex or habit, attempt preemptively catching them blocking low.
Or get them used to blocking after you do certain things. A common situation would be after a jump-in, especially when the scenario is in your favor.
Some players freeze up after blocking a j1 or j2, being that the offensive player is safe to follow up a majority of the time.
A lot of players, even tournament level players can get used to your Mileena attempting to mix you up after a blocked jump in.
Basically, you need to train your eyes and step up your matchup knowledge in order to make worthwhile attempts.

-Making F3 Safer
In the event you're playing Ravenous? High Pounce as it's safe on block.
Etheral? Fade, Ex.Fade.

Blocked? you can stop and cautiously resume neutral game.

Otherwise you can:
-F3,4xx into a special that may throw off your opponent like Low Sai, Fade OR Roll/Ex.Roll to punish impatient players
-Finish the string with 4 in an attempt to get a knockdown (f344)
-Take additional risk by finishing with 3, in attempts to confirm a hit.
This can be followed up with a roll for midscreen & just about any string in the corner for a combo follow-up

 

[ZeroEffect]

Short Version of this post:
A few practical Attempt Scenraios:
-On your opponents Delayed Wakeup
-After reading or guessing a block
-When your opponent is rushing
-In place of your mix-up attempt

- - - - -
I think the issue here is that there really is no guaranteed way to set it up without fail.
We should all keep in mind that the success rate of F3 is dependent on your opponents ability to read and react.
That being said, any advice as to how to pull it off is just another trick in the bag.

For starters, my biggest suggestion is trying to attempt it in advantageous situations.
-Health & o/r Meter Advantage*
-While your opponent is stunned or vurnerable(jumping, running in unsafely, etc.)
-Any situation you'd consider worth the risk. (Weigh the pro's of landing it VS. the cons of punishment)
Even though it can be reacted to, it can stuff certain moves that aren't necessarily that weren't fast enough, as well.

F3 is a move that I believe has the "Makoto Effect", as I like to call it.
(For those who don't play SF, Makoto is a character that is based around learning your opponents and reacting accordingly.)
Truth is, though it may be slow af on startup? It's more of a mind-game intended starter.
Your job is not only be surprising, but to be bold about it's application.
You want to optimize your chances with the above things in mind, but keep in mind it's usually risky most of the time.

-Conditioning
How well are you making your opponent respect certain scenarios?
If you have them blocking low a lot, try to find out WHEN and if so, WHY.
Once you have a fix on their reflex or habit, attempt preemptively catching them blocking low.
Or get them used to blocking after you do certain things. A common situation would be after a jump-in, especially when the scenario is in your favor.
Some players freeze up after blocking a j1 or j2, being that the offensive player is safe to follow up a majority of the time.
A lot of players, even tournament level players can get used to your Mileena attempting to mix you up after a blocked jump in.
Basically, you need to train your eyes and step up your matchup knowledge in order to make worthwhile attempts.

-Making F3 Safer
In the event you're playing Ravenous? High Pounce as it's safe on block.
Etheral? Fade, Ex.Fade.

Blocked? you can stop and cautiously resume neutral game.

Otherwise you can:
-F3,4xx into a special that may throw off your opponent like Low Sai, Fade OR Roll/Ex.Roll to punish impatient players
-Finish the string with 4 in an attempt to get a knockdown (f344)
-Take additional risk by finishing with 3, in attempts to confirm a hit.
This can be followed up with a roll for midscreen & just about any string in the corner for a combo follow-up

I mean no disrespect by saying this, but... Fuck all that.

Lol, there's already a lot of conditioning you need to do as Mileena just to get Grabs, Telekicks, F4, and EX Rolls to work. But this move landing is almost a non-issue. Your best bet is hard reading someone running in and D4ing/grabbing you. It's actually good on block so at least there's that. You'll never need to cancel into specials after F3 since you're at +2.

I don't see it being worth forcing into your strategy. It's more of a pocket move to pull out once in a while. Even then, getting it blocked is a moral win. It's just too slow for it to be useful otherwise.

 

[TRi4L N 3ЯЯ0R]

Short Version of this post:
it's usually risky most of the time.
-Making F3 Safer
In the event you're playing Ravenous? High Pounce as it's safe on block.

@1man3letters said that high pounce can be punished by certain characters now on block due to the recent patch aside from the fast pokes unless I misunderstood his post.

"cassie - flip kick
kung lao - spin
jacqui - 1
jax - 1
radien - F1
liu kang - F1
reptile - ex slide
scorpion - D1
shinnok - D1, ex hellsparks
ermac - D1
kotal - D1, D4
goro- D1, D3
ferra/torr (lackey only) D1"

 

[1man3letters]

@1man3letters said that high pounce can be punished by certain characters now on block due to the recent patch aside from the fast pokes unless I misunderstood his post.

"cassie - flip kick
kung lao - spin
jacqui - 1
jax - 1
radien - F1
liu kang - F1
reptile - ex slide
scorpion - D1
shinnok - D1, ex hellsparks
ermac - D1
kotal - D1, D4
goro- D1, D3
ferra/torr (lackey only) D1"

yep, "safe" when 13 chars can punish is def not what id call safe haha
but that u said with a recent patch, its always been like this bar jacqui that became able to punish with the last patch

 

[Crimea]

I use f3 to punish Quan's trance

 

[Mighty Durpyena]

In Online lag city when it's unblockable

 

[dotunderscore]

I leave it for the cases of when it wants to come out by itself - usually a botched F23 attempt or the even worse low sai malfunction

 

[getoverhere--->]

after jump in lol

 

[SEN WIIISE]

I mean no disrespect by saying this, but... Fuck all that.

Lol, there's already a lot of conditioning you need to do as Mileena just to get Grabs, Telekicks, F4, and EX Rolls to work. But this move landing is almost a non-issue. Your best bet is hard reading someone running in and D4ing/grabbing you. It's actually good on block so at least there's that. You'll never need to cancel into specials after F3 since you're at +2.

I don't see it being worth forcing into your strategy. It's more of a pocket move to pull out once in a while. Even then, getting it blocked is a moral win. It's just too slow for it to be useful otherwise.

None taken, I mean, that's nice and all but we're talking about f3 here.
Conditioning for the set up several moves is how you play every character to a degree. . .like duh.
I also mentioned that stopping after a confirmed f3 is safe.
You say you'll never need to cancel afterward, but theirs plenty of times ppl duck in block stun.
Or in the situation of piercing, some players block standing and get low sai'd.

I mean, my main point is just this.
Elaborating and otherwise expanding on f3's possible application, is the theme of the thread.
No one seems like they're forcing anything, i'm unsure what you could even mean by that.
Honestly, i don't see how what you even posted added anything new to the convo.
All that stood out was your rebuttal.
Sorry you don't think the move is worth using, but discussing.

@1man3letters said that high pounce can be punished by certain characters now on block due to the recent patch aside from the fast pokes unless I misunderstood his post.

"cassie - flip kick
kung lao - spin
jacqui - 1
jax - 1
radien - F1
liu kang - F1
reptile - ex slide
scorpion - D1
shinnok - D1, ex hellsparks
ermac - D1
kotal - D1, D4
goro- D1, D3
ferra/torr (lackey only) D1"

I'm gonna have to update my post then. I actually wasn't aware of that being that case now.
Thanks.

 

[Karnage]

only use it on a read for low crushing pokes..

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

You can try to land F3 on some hard knockdown. Or use after d4 when you notice that people respect your offense too much. Some experienced players still get hit by F3, like they suddenly get drunk

 

[ZeroEffect]

None taken, I mean, that's nice and all but we're talking about f3 here.
Conditioning for the set up several moves is how you play every character to a degree. . .like duh.
I also mentioned that stopping after a confirmed f3 is safe.
You say you'll never need to cancel afterward, but theirs plenty of times ppl duck in block stun.
Or in the situation of piercing, some players block standing and get low sai'd.

I mean, my main point is just this.
Elaborating and otherwise expanding on f3's possible application, is the theme of the thread.
No one seems like they're forcing anything, i'm unsure what you could even mean by that.
Honestly, i don't see how what you even posted added anything new to the convo.
All that stood out was your rebuttal.
Sorry you don't think the move is worth using, but discussing.

Again, I meant no offense, but your tone suggests you seem to have taken it as such. If so, my bad.

If F3 is blocked, people who know the MU tend to wait for the followup. Which actually makes F3 more than +2 on block a lot of times. You also suggested High pounce, which, even if you can't be punished for it, leaves you at worse frames than F3,4 or F3 by itself. There's nothing inherently wrong with cancelling into a 50/50 with specials, but since they tend not to attack after F3, you can grab, or continue pressure before going for your special cancel.

I WANT this move to be useful, and for months I was like you. I believed it was fine and could be landed through conditioning. But over time, even those with the worst reactions were standing in time to block. (I'm speaking in terms of good connections or offline of course.) So what situation, (outside of somehow jumping a low/grab), will let you hit it with any consistency? Generally, if you hit with it, it's because the opponent had a brainfart and didn't stand up in time.

If you want to try and bait them into low poking so you can counter, keep in mind, they have to be at least -11 for F3 to get off the ground in time to jump a D3/D4.

That's what I meant by "forcing". You have to make them "forget" about the move, and even then it's reactable. It's the same reason I have an issue with F4. They can sit and wait for the second hit, confirm it didn't come out, and STILL react in time to punish you. That's bullshit, imo. So getting them to block F3 should count as a win for us.

There's ways to work it in on block, and at this point, that's probably where the discussion should go. You CAN hit it if you land a very deep JIP, but you'll likely get similar damage by using easier strings like 1,2,3 or F1,2,b4, or Stand 4~EX TK combos. (Since the patch nerfed a bit of damage off of F343 anyway). EX Fade setups on block might be worth it in some cases.