Question - Special Forces Proposed Changes to Special Forces

[colby4898]

I think special forces is an incredibly underrated character and doesn't really need many changes.But there are a couple changes that I think should be made to this variation to make it more refined.

Kamikaze Change
Block+3 Kamikaze says it's a mid, yet can be both neutral and blocked crouched under. I tihkn this should be fixed so that it is a mid.
Block+4 Low Kamikaze is a low that deals 10% damage but according to the move list it's a mid that does 5%. This should be corrected in the move list.

Park Drone Changes
Park drone is almost completely useless in my opinion with how it is at the moment. Cancelling some strings into park can make them safer. But the only time this ever makes it safer thats worth using is b14 making it -6. (I say worth using because b33 park is safer than b33, but not safer that doing b332 so theres no point parking.)

What changes should be made to park drone to make it more useful?

Pause Timer
In my opinion the way park is supposed to be used is that you park the drone in a specific part of the map, controlling that space. For example if you're zoning full screen but the drone is parked on the otherside of the screen it conrols that space. Or parking the drone in a corner to make it harder for them to escape, or parking the drone off screen making hard to blockables with low kamikaze and b1.
However, none of these can be used due to the short timer, so pausing the timer on the drone when it's parked would solve this issue.
Or would being able to park drone and have infinite homing missiles be to overpowered do you think?

Make the move faster
Another way it could be changed is by making the move faster, so it has more uses ending a string in park to make it safe or possibly even plus.

Automatic Unparking
When you park the drone and activate Block+1 or Block+2 the drone will automatically unpark itsself. This is an issue because if hypotheticlly we do get a change to the timer of the drone when it's parked, the whole reason to park the drone in a specific part is to control that space even when Sonya's not there. This becomes much harder if everytime you use a drone special it unparks and starts to follow again. Thus I think a change should be made where the drone stays parked after activating a drone special. (obviously other than the kamikaze soecials)

B2 Changes
I think that b2 should should be changed to 10 start up frames to make a more consistent punisher as its the only way to get a juggle combo without the drone active.

let me know what you think of these changes, or what changes you think she needs if any at all.

 

[IrishMantis]

Make the notation for cancelling into Drone L2 like Quan Chi so the system can actually tell the difference between on action and blocking would definitely help

 

[colby4898]

I'm not sure I quite understand what you mean because I've never had any troubles with the input being R2.

 

[Jolt]

I think special forces is an incredibly underrated character and doesn't really many changes.But there are a couple changes that I think should be made to this variation to make it more refined.

Kamikaze Change
Block+3 Kamikaze says it's a mid, yet can be both neutral and blocked crouched under. I tihkn this should be fixed so that it is a mid.

Park Drone Changes
Park drone is almost completely useless in my opinion with how it is at the moment. Cancelling some strings into park can make them safer. But the only time this ever makes it safer thats worth using is b14 making it -6. (I say worth using because b33 park is safer than b33, but not safer that doing b332 so theres no point parking.)

What changes should be made to park drone to make it more useful?

Pause Timer
In my opinion the way park is supposed to be used is that you park the drone in a specific part of the map, controlling that space. For example if you're zoning full screen but the drone is parked on the otherside of the screen it conrols that space. Or parking the drone in a corner to make it harder for them to escape, or parking the drone off screen making hard to blockables with low kamikaze and b1.
However, none of these can be used due to the short timer, so pausing the timer on the drone when it's parked would solve this issue.
Or would being able to park drone and have infinite homing missiles be to overpowered do you think?

I disagree with the first point. Instead, I would prefer that it anti-air more consistently. I would GUESS there's a reason it's listed as mid instead of high in terms of system mechanics, probably so it can cover a certain range of space but I honestly don't know. I wouldn't be opposed to it being listed as a high if that makes it Anti-Air any better. In my mind, Kamikaze is supposed to exist to prevent people from jumping out of low kamikaze (in that regard it's a read between the 2), but I found that it doesn't always work for that and they can still jump out. Cassie's glow kick is an extreme offender lol

I agree with park drone changes. I think the park should either reset the timer, or increase it by a set duration. Drone attacks still take time to be input, so you wouldn't have infinite homing missiles if the opponent just takes the time to touch you. I don't think making it faster would be the best solution, timer manipulation is the way to go IMO

but then if you manipulate the timer, would 11 park not become an infinite?

 

[colby4898]

I disagree with the first point. Instead, I would prefer that it anti-air more consistently. I would GUESS there's a reason it's listed as mid instead of high in terms of system mechanics, probably so it can cover a certain range of space but I honestly don't know. I wouldn't be opposed to it being listed as a high if that makes it Anti-Air any better. In my mind, Kamikaze is supposed to exist to prevent people from jumping out of low kamikaze (in that regard it's a read between the 2), but I found that it doesn't always work for that and they can still jump out. Cassie's glow kick is an extreme offender lol

I agree with park drone changes. I think the park should either reset the timer, or increase it by a set duration. Drone attacks still take time to be input, so you wouldn't have infinite homing missiles if the opponent just takes the time to touch you. I don't think making it faster would be the best solution, timer manipulation is the way to go IMO

but then if you manipulate the timer, would 11 park not become an infinite?

That's how I use kamikaze now. If the opponent keeps trying to jump out of zoning then I will use the kamikaze to knowck them out wich will often also combo with a bf2. I feel like if it's listed as a mid, then thats what nrs intended it to be and it should act that way, but if it was became a better anti-air I would be ok with that too.

I definitely favour time minipulation to parked drone timer over a speed up of the move itsself. 11 park would only become an infinite in the corner and nrs could probably limit the number of times you can park a drone in a combo or change the hit stun of strings after a park drone has combo'd. Like how you cant just do f2 f2 infintely with Jason.

 

[colby4898]

I just noticed that in the move list it says low kamikaze is a mid and does 5% damgage when it's a low that does 10% damage. That should also be changed.

 

[Tony at Home]

This is a solid mid tier variation in a character that has good variations as backups options. She really doesn't need any substantial buffs.

I like REO's suggestion. Which for SF Sonya was "B2 is no longer 'oh shit..' on block" and that's it.

B2 being faster is unnecessary. She doesn't need a 10 frame launcher.

Park drone is underwhelming, not useless though. You can park the drone then advance on the opponent. It increases travel time of low drone so you can do blk+4 and then her b1 overhead and it becomes a hard to block lowverhead if the distance is big enough.

 

[colby4898]

I don't think b2 needs to be safer on block, just be able to punish in my opinion.

With your last point thats exactly why she needs a timing change because by the time activate the drone and manage to set up the drone well enough to make the low and overhard a hard to blockable the drones already gone. This tactic can almost never be pulled off in the current state of park drone which is why I think it needs changes.

I don't think the buffs I suggested where that substantial, and I agree that they're not completely necessary but would be nice to help bring her up to the same level as her other variations.

 

[skater11]

I agree with everything except b2 being 10 frames. It should just be safe

 

[colby4898]

I agree with everything except b2 being 10 frames. It should just be safe

I don't see much point in it being safe because there are other mid hitting strings which are +2 which can be used for pressure. The way I play is either use 11 or 121 as mids for pressure or mix up with b3 or b1. I would never see the point of going for a negative mid when I can go for a plus one or hit them with the mix up.

This is why I think it shoul be sped up to become a more reliable punisher.

 

[Eddy Wang]

As someone who has been playing the variation for some time but not being really vocal about it.

I have to say i agree with the park drone change (if Park drone pauses timer, then there is really no reason to give her an extended time in call drone)

As well as i preffer the B2 to be 10f and not be safe, rather than be safe and be as slow as it is.

 

[colby4898]

I was messing around with park drone in the lab trying to find some practical hard to block set ups, (and failing) and I realised that when you park the drone and activate block+1/2 the drone becomes unparked. I think this makes it a whole lot wors because even if we did get some kind of timer change in regards to park drone, it wouldn't succeed at controlling the space you park it in well as it unparks after a block+1/2. I think a change should be made where a parked drone stays parked after using a drone attack.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

B33u4 is a launcher, b2 isnt the only one

 

[colby4898]

You can't combo of b33u4 mid screen.

 

[Ninequads93]

All I would like is for f2 low kami to connect midscreen granting her some good damage plus ending into another drone it would b really powerful but that's just a greedy wish , also 121 low kami connecting midscreen would b nice as well

Also b33u4 has whiffed on crouching opp sometimes maybe that too I'll have to think of more later but I think she's just like Lex where they're on the borderline of one buff making them super good

 

[colby4898]

I've had inconsistencies with 121 low kamikaze in the corner, sometimes it combos and sometimes it doesn't and I don't know why.
In the corner I always do b14 park and confirm on hit into 121 low kamikaze so it's pretty annoying when it doesn't for whatever reason. I guess I should confirm into 213 kami for the same damage but harder link, or 11 kami for the easier link but less damage.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Reviving this because this variation doesn't get much love.
@colby4898 has your opinion about Dronya the same?

I say there is an alternate way to make her more playable, if drone call recovery frames were reduced to the same as park drone, her whole game could just work pretty well, for example, everytime she landed a b332~drone call she would still have time to link a 11 string to try anything.

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

I think special forces Sonya is fine she s a good MU specific variation

 

[Pan1cMode]

Honestly special forces is ok but if we were to get any buffs, these are the ones I'd want

- park drone pauses (but doesn't reset) drone timer
- drone specials don't auto un-park (kamikazee specials exempted)
- b2 made 12 frames; keep it super punishable at -23
- BLK+1 drone recovers slightly faster (I'm talking about the drone recovering quicker to be used for another drone special, not Sonya herself)
- BLK+1 doesn't go away on hit (similar to BLK+2)



Sonya does not need a faster drone call but I would not complain if she was given it. That buff honestly seems unnecessary.

 

[colby4898]

My opinion has changed in regards the park drone. I don't think she NEEDS any changes whatsoever. She will become more playable just by demolition getting nerfed imo.
If I had my way though I would do the following:
- block+1 doens't dissapear when you're hit
- greater range on block+1, the reason for this is if done in a block string it will sometimes whiff, increasing the ranges negates the inconsisteny.
- make b2 12 frames start up. She still lacks any good punish without her drone. With drone she has 11~block+4, 1 is 7 frames. However 1 has a very short range so her next best ounish becomes b12~block+4 at an appraoching 12 fram punish. With out drone her punishes are awful. Make b2 12 frames would get you about 25% iirc so modest damage, and 12 frames still isn't a super fast move. I think it would be fair. I think my previous suggestion of 10 frames may be too fast.
- not a buff but the kamikaze specials should still be corrected in the move list.
- enough hit adv. on f2 so you could combo into block+4 would be nice as f2 is a great mid that doesn't get you much whereas in demo you get a grenade. This would also help covert ops as she would be able to get f2~MS4 to combo too. This is probably the least necessary of the ones I've said.

- park drone pauses (but doesn't reset) drone timer
- drone specials don't auto un-park (kamikazee specials exempted)

I now don't think there is any change that could make this move useful without being too good.
Being able to park drone full screen, and constantly to block+2 without the drone dissapearing+cool down+calling drone in order to start the zoning again seems too strong. Also I fear by speeding up the park drone it will allow more viable htb setups. htb's are dumb lol

I say there is an alternate way to make her more playable, if drone call recovery frames were reduced to the same as park drone, her whole game could just work pretty well, for example, everytime she landed a b332~drone call she would still have time to link a 11 string to try anything.

Drone call is perfectly fine how it is. Off a 2134 knockdown you are guaranteed drone call~drone special. If I'm reading what you're saying correctly, you say b332~call drone~11 should all link as one combo. This would be crazy. This would mean you wouldn't even need the drone out to get your high damage 50/50's. Even demo needs to have her grenades to make the 50/50's more threatening.

 

[Pan1cMode]

My opinion has changed in regards the park drone. I don't think she NEEDS any changes whatsoever. She will become more playable just by demolition getting nerfed imo.
If I had my way though I would do the following:
- block+1 doens't dissapear when you're hit
- greater range on block+1, the reason for this is if done in a block string it will sometimes whiff, increasing the ranges negates the inconsisteny.
- make b2 12 frames start up. She still lacks any good punish without her drone. With drone she has 11~block+4, 1 is 7 frames. However 1 has a very short range so her next best ounish becomes b12~block+4 at an appraoching 12 fram punish. With out drone her punishes are awful. Make b2 12 frames would get you about 25% iirc so modest damage, and 12 frames still isn't a super fast move. I think it would be fair. I think my previous suggestion of 10 frames may be too fast.
- not a buff but the kamikaze specials should still be corrected in the move list.
- enough hit adv. on f2 so you could combo into block+4 would be nice as f2 is a great mid that doesn't get you much whereas in demo you get a grenade. This would also help covert ops as she would be able to get f2~MS4 to combo too. This is probably the least necessary of the ones I've said.


I now don't think there is any change that could make this move useful without being too good.
Being able to park drone full screen, and constantly to block+2 without the drone dissapearing+cool down+calling drone in order to start the zoning again seems too strong. Also I fear by speeding up the park drone it will allow more viable htb setups. htb's are dumb lol


Drone call is perfectly fine how it is. Off a 2134 knockdown you are guaranteed drone call~drone special. If I'm reading what you're saying correctly, you say b332~call drone~11 should all link as one combo. This would be crazy. This would mean you wouldn't even need the drone out to get your high damage 50/50's. Even demo needs to have her grenades to make the 50/50's more threatening.

I agree she doesn't need a park drone buff but I disagree that it would make her OP. The drone is slow enough that in terms of zoning it's not all that difficult to get around; especially with run. Zoning in this game is not all that strong.

In terms of the f2 buff I'm kinda apathetic towards that tbh. I really only use it when running in with a drone special following behind. You run in and do the f12 then the drone special hits and you get another 50/50. For punishing and footsie purposes, b14 serves the purpose.

I'm glad you agree with my proposed BLK+1 buff. It's frustrating when you get poked out of it especially considering all other drone specials don't go away.

As for the b2 buff, you can see I agree that 12 frames would be perfect with 10 perhaps being too strong. I think it's important that it maintain its place as a punisher/combo extender rather than a footsie tool; so it should remain very punishable on block.

 

[Tony at Home]

The issue with BLK+1 for me is the drone-follow really lags behind Sonya so it constantly whiffs on forward-advancing strings (f2, b1). And of course I can't really even do a short-sprint towards my opponent and expect anything ending with BLK+1 to hit.

 

[Pan1cMode]

The issue with BLK+1 for me is the drone-follow really lags behind Sonya so it constantly whiffs on forward-advancing strings (f2, b1). And of course I can't really even do a short-sprint towards my opponent and expect anything ending with BLK+1 to hit.

I actually like that it lags behind slightly. It actually means that BLK+1 gets to be even slightly more plus while still jailing. She can be up to +7 if spaced correctly.

 

[colby4898]

I agree she doesn't need a park drone buff but I disagree that it would make her OP. The drone is slow enough that in terms of zoning it's not all that difficult to get around; especially with run. Zoning in this game is not all that strong.

The thing with her zoning though is if you get tagged running they may get combo'd. The homing missile can be annoying to get around in combiation with bf2. The balance comes from the timer, the cool down and the start up of the drone.
Also while speeding up park drone won't make her OP it will likely add more htb setups. All htb's should be removed from this game imo, so I do not want her to gain any.
Also dependant on how much the move is sped up, certain block strongs might become plus. e.g. b14~park is -7 right now iirc, if it's sped up it could become plus. I don't think this would be necessary considering the pressure she already gets from homing missile, kami and the overhead blast.
If the patch comes out, I'm hoping to look down the patch notes and see Special Forces hasn't been changed at all. If she is changed I can see nrs cocking it up lol