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Strategy Overlooked Overhead?

OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
Incorporating mb f3 bounce cancel into your game will help you open up your opponents, something The Joker cannot do without meter. The strings to cancel out of are 11, 21, f23 and 32. I could write a wall of text on why mb f3 bounce cancel is a good addition to your game, but Pros and Cons list should suffice.​

Pros
  • On Hit, you can go for wall carry and damage combos, both of which deny Wake-Ups.
  • On Block, you are at +6 and in range for b1, b2, b3, f3, d2, d3, Acid Blossom, Crowbar, RLG, and Teeth.
  • Mentioned strings naturally combo into a mb f3. As in they cannot block between the strings and mb f3, if the string already hit them.
Cons
  • Cost two meters
  • At 32 Start-Up frames, can be reacted to.
Since this is meant to be a mix-up, you need to vary it up between this, mb RLG, Crowbar and Acid Blossom. This is not a go to move, the same way mb RLG isn't a go to move. Think of mb f3 as a more expensive overhead version of mb RLG with a hit of armor. So don’t get predictable is what I am trying to say.

So what are the combos I can get out of this anyways? I will not include the string when calculating the damage because I will be assuming that you caught them with f3 and the previous string was blocked.

Combos
  • Wall Carry: mb f3, ji2, f23 xx Crowbar, Forward Dash, Crowbar (31%)
  • Damage (Easy): mb f3, ji2, 32 xx Acid Blossom (35%)
  • Damage (Hard): mb f3, d2 xx Far Teeth, 32 (1 Hit) xx Acid Blossom, 32 (1 Hit) xx Acid Blossom (39%)
Some characters can back dash, jump out or otherwise reversal out of 32 xx mb f3, because 32 has the least amount of hit stun compared to the others. This makes 32 unfavorable when going for this setup. However, it does have some uses, such as being the only string to hit Zod out of his General Parry reversal. All other strings catch back dash and jumps. In terms of hit stun, 21 > 11 > f23 > 32. The next logical step is to consider which characters can reversal out of this string (everyone can get out of it using super, of course). So go on training mode and test it out!

Character Specific Reversal Options
Aquaman = Trident Scoop/Water Shield will hit/negate 32 string. All other strings hit.
Catwoman = High Feline Evade avoids all strings unless the mb f3 is delayed.
Joker = All strings hit.
MMH = All strings hit.
Lobo = All strings hit.
Shazam = Atlas Torpedo/Both Teleports avoid 32 string. All other strings hit.
Solomon Grundy = Walking Corpse hits all strings unless the mb f3 is delayed.
Zod = General Parry will parry 11, 21 and f23 strings. 32 string hits.

StevoSuprem0
Qwark28
Gilbagz
Zino
Fromundaman
insomnia_ftw
Dr Jackal
Jack White
KonDcnT
 
OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
Well if they choose to block, see Pro point #2. If they choose to reversal, they will have to guess if we are going to mb f3, Crowbar, mb RLG or Acid Blossom.

What do you mean by leaving us helpless during a clash? Like we wont have meter? "Needs two meter" kind of speaks for itself.

Attempting to Dash or Jump will result in a guaranteed hit with all strings except 32.
 
OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
b1 till i die

Anyways, I disagree on it being almost useless since one of the main complaints is the lack of opening people up. Now like I said, it shouldn't be a go to move because of the two meter requirement and predictability, but you have the meter, it's worth mixing it up for over 30% instead of saving it and getting 9%. Just my 2 cents.

But feel free to voice your input man, I'm willing to listen to anyone's reasoning on why you should almost never consider this option.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Because 30 frames is way too much when at high lvl people block crossups that take much less frames to do and when something like parrying Aquaman's B2 is considered a viable thing to do.
 
OnlineRon91

OnlineRon91

Joker++
Valid point for sure. Joker will never have Batgirl level 50/50's. I figured at the very least, on block, you have +6 to mess with and your at a fairly close range to mix up an overhead/low from the list I mentioned above. In any case, they will have to respect it by choosing not to open the gap or reversal through since they will get punished for it.
 
Fromundaman

Fromundaman

I write too much.
Just going to quickly throw in that it's useless to do after 21 since anything you can do after 21 hits mid or overhead already (Except DB2, but that's easily reacted to.).
 
NoobHunter420

NoobHunter420

Scrub God Lord
all NRS needs to do is allow for b1 to combo into rolling gas.
the jokers problem would be non existent. He would play much like bane, make them duck with crow bar and let it rip once they duck.
 
Qwark28

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
NoobHunter420 said:
all NRS needs to do is allow for b1 to combo into rolling gas.
the jokers problem would be non existent. He would play much like bane, make them duck with crow bar and let it rip once they duck.
Click to expand...
jokers problem is getting in, not dealing damage.

not to mention you cant hit confirm b1 and if they block it they jump over the gas and punish
 
testyourpatience

testyourpatience

Ya'll stingy
joker is just a bad character design. they focused too much on not making another cyrax that he ended up sucking eggs. sorry to say but you know it's true. if you think joker sucks because he doesn't have any mixups, think again. there are other characters who don't have mixups either, but they're not as bad as joker. him and zatanna have no neutral game. kudos to nrs for making the coolest dc character unviable tier.
 
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