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Strategy - Erron Black Outlaw db4 Seems Superior to Marksman/Gunslinger

RizRaz

Errons with combos - always hot.
SInce Outlaw's db4 (Sand Toss/Sand Throw when EX) has a much taller and seemingly longer hitbox (Marksman/Gunslinger's doesn't even hit after a j1 or 11 anywhere but the corner), is there a point to using these moves?

Outlaw's db4 opens up Erron's combo potential and flexibility a lot, and I just don't see anything worth losing out on that. Anybody found a shining alternative to outlaw db4 in the other two variations?
 

Crathen

Death is my business
Outlaw is in a good spot right now , Marksman has some potential to limit the opponent movement and has very good metered damage in the corner problem with this variation is the rifle shots are very - and all highs , the MB last hit is a high so it can be ducked to avoid the + frames on the last shot , Gunslinger is more suited for midscreen keepaway w stance into 4 , what strikes me is that his strings don't have that great cancel advantage so armor or fast hitting normals will hit you out of stance followups.

Outlaw is good upclose but doesn't have long range tools so that's a thing , oh and did people noticed that 112 frame data is off? Says -5 but it's actually -8
 

HeroesNZ

Baconlord's Billionaire Sugar Daddy
I'm liking Marksman & Outlaw right now. Gunslinger seems a lot more lacking than the other two but's it's day 1 for me so I could be missing something.

Outlaw has pretty solid meterless corner damage (high 30s, low 40s) and midscreen damage (high 20s, low 30s).

Marksman's gun smack launches and is only -1 on block (didn't actually check to confirm this) which is awesome.

Gunslinger has a cool hat though.
 
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Pakman

Lawless Victory!
Gunslinger gives you a mid-screen 3 way guessing game in the form of Stand Off Stance; however 2/3 of the follow up options are readily available (and imo done better) in Marksman as they both do more raw damage and have greater application - yeah Gunslinger lets you combo 11strings into SOS low shots (probably the only useful Gunslinger only combo there is) but it's not like EB is naturally lacking in low hitting combos...

This being said, Gunslinger does give you access to money shot, which helps create a synergy with caltrop set ups and allows you to pin down opponents mid screen - at least for a while. However as useful as money shot is, the relatively low raw damage and the fact that it doesn't really combo hinder its overall application in Erron Blacks' game - in all cases where I would use money shot, I could have used SOS 3/4 and/or either one of the Marksman rifle shots to better fulfill that role. And if it's caltrop synergy you want, mid-screen or up-close, Outlaw does it better.

One thing EB naturally lacks are full screen options - whilst Gunslinger has SOS 4 which causes EB to shoot and retreat to full screen, once he is there he can't really do much other than SOS 4 again. This isn't the case in Marksman; EB he has a retreating gun shot special AND can still threaten the opponent from full screen with his low shot rifle (or retreating shot again if you want) - and both of these specials do more raw damage to boot than their respective Gunslinger counterparts. So if it's projectile zoning you want, Marksman is the one to go for.

The saving grace Gunslinger has is SOS 2 (AA) follow up - it's got a sick angle, hit box and does 10% raw damage. However, in Marksman he gains an AA launcher that fulfills basically the same role AND lets him juggle afterwards. And in Outlaw, EB's neutral jump punch gets an extension, which ends up covering roughly the same angle as SOS 2...

Since all of my current bnbs can be done exactly the same in Marksman, I think I may just go and jump to that variation.
 
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The Farmer

Gunslinger since pre ptch -Shout out 2 Youphs 2015
Gunslinger gives you a mid-screen 3 way guessing game in the form of Stand Off Stance; however 2/3 of the follow up options are readily available (and imo done better) in Marksman as they both do more raw damage and have greater application - yeah Gunslinger lets you combo 11strings into SOS low shots (probably the only useful Gunslinger only combo there is) but it's not like EB is naturally lacking in low hitting combos...

This being said, Gunslinger does give you access to money shot, which helps create a synergy with caltrop set ups and allows you to pin down opponents mid screen - at least for a while. However as useful as money shot is, the relatively low raw damage and the fact that it doesn't really combo hinder its overall application in Erron Blacks' game - in all cases where I would use money shot, I could have used SOS 3/4 and/or either one of the Marksman rifle shots to better fulfill that role. And if it's caltrop synergy you want, mid-screen or up-close, Outlaw does it better.

One thing EB naturally lacks are full screen options - whilst Gunslinger has SOS 4 which causes EB to shoot and retreat to full screen, once he is there he can't really do much other than SOS 4 again. This isn't the case in Marksman; EB he has a retreating gun shot special AND can still threaten the opponent from full screen with his low shot rifle (or retreating shot again if you want) - and both of these specials do more raw damage to boot than their respective Gunslinger counterparts. So if it's projectile zoning you want, Marksman is the one to go for.

The saving grace Gunslinger has is SOS 2 (AA) follow up - it's got a sick angle, hit box and does 10% raw damage. However, in Marksman he gains an AA launcher that fulfills basically the same role AND lets him juggle afterwards. And in Outlaw, EB's neutral jump punch gets an extension, which ends up covering roughly the same angle as SOS 2...

Since all of my current bnbs can be done exactly the same in Marksman, I think I may just go and jump to that variation.
Since everyone seems to be doing work in outlaw and marksman, I'm going to spend all week fleshing out gunslinger as best I can. Plus I think the coin money shots look stylish
 

Pakman

Lawless Victory!
^^ that's exactly why I have spent so much time with Gunslinger tbh

But if you can find something really unique/awesome with the variant, more power to you my good man. I'm sure there is plenty of hidden tech there.
 

The Farmer

Gunslinger since pre ptch -Shout out 2 Youphs 2015
^^ that's exactly why I have spent so much time with Gunslinger tbh

But if you can find something really unique/awesome with the variant, more power to you my good man. I'm sure there is plenty of hidden tech there.
I will report my findings
 

babalook

Noob
Has anyone tested how much frame advantage EB gets when canceling a move into a dash run canceled sniper shot cuz other characters seem to be able to cancel out of hold-able specials extremely fast.
 

NurzBenny

Old Member
I love marksman, slightly harder combos, and you don't get the free sandtoss armored combo starter, but we do still have armored slide and armored command grab to blow through pressure. Nothing is more satisfying than walk back shots, or delayed sniper shot. plus db2 in marksman is -1 (with super pushback), great move to cancel into off of high low strings, hit or miss you're safe. on hit you get command grab, and probably alot more for extended corner carry.

Respect to all the gunslingers. I don't see it yet, but I'm here for it, if it pops off. Might be some tech there we're all missing