Ok just figured out the basics of what frame data is...now what? ^^

[Indecision]

So it's safe to say Injustice is the first fighter that I've had the opportunity to take seriously. I have a local scene, there's tournaments to go to, I now live in area with high speed internet... so yeah now I finally have an opportunity to be competitive!

Looking now for as many advantages as possible that I can get I decided to look into what frame data is. This was a pretty cool introduction http://thirdpersonblog.wordpress.com/2012/04/18/universal-fighting-game-guide-how-to-read-frame-data/
pretty helpful and now I understand the super basics behind it. Just wondering if you guys can tell me how I can specifically make use of frame data in this game inparticular. Like how do people go about figuring out what moves are safe against X character etc. Like listening to Tom Brady do commentary and say "oh that isn't safe! or blah blah is positive on block etc. how does one go about figuring this kind of thing out? And then the next step of using it to your advantage? If you need any further info from me lemme know! I'd really appreciate any tips you can give me ; )

(I main batgirl and have been tinkering with green lantern if that's helpful to anyone ^_^ )

 

[Chongo]

In the pause menu, there is in game frame data. Use that

 

[Indecision]

In the pause menu, there is in game frame data. Use that

oh wow how cool! in the guide i was looking at though it mentioned start up frames, active frames, and recovery frames...but in the injustice menu it only covers start up and recovery! does this mean active is bundled with start up?

 

[Indecision]

another thing too let's say a move that I use has very slight negative block advantage... what does mean for me? Like I get what it's saying but what would a smart player do in that kind of situation? I just need some basic guidance. : P

 

[shaowebb]

If it says you are at a positive frame advantage make a note of by how many frames. Like say +5. If you got a move that can be done in that many frames or less then you found a way to follow up the move that was +5 because your opponent cannot come out of stun sooner than your next move comes out.

Some stuff you just gotta check though. D2 just changed across the board. Go into the lab for stuff like this that will likely have incorrect frame data listed or stuff you are just curious on and set your opponent AI to "record" then have them do whatever move you want to test against. Now they will keep repeating whatever you recorded yourself doing as them and you can check and see what your options are versus these scenarios that you record and put into training mode. You can test how to block combos by doing one, recording it, and then practicing your timing on blocks. You can practice punishing or blocking moves like Scorpion's teleport, you can even practice simple stuff like D2 by having folks perform jump in attacks and checking to see if your D2 beats it, trades or loses to their jump in.

Training mode is great this way.

As for how to apply things if you see strings with enormous negative frames on hit or block that means its unsafe which means if you miss it...well...thats your ass.

Thats the basics. Use the training mode this way to practice how to move, get in on, punish, and straight up react/avoid things in the game as you discover things you have trouble with. Good luck and welcome aboard.

 

[Chongo]

oh wow how cool! in the guide i was looking at though it mentioned start up frames, active frames, and recovery frames...but in the injustice menu it only covers start up and recovery! does this mean active is bundled with start up?

Basically, startup frames lead to active frames. An example is Kung Lao in Mortal Kombat 9.


Kung Lao's spin had 6 frames of startup, meaning it took 6 frames for the move to have it's hitbox active, meaning when it'll actually hit. Spin also had 30 active frames, meaning if you got touched Lao during those 30 active frames you would get launched.

Although this video was made for MK, it applies to Injustice as well.

 

[Indecision]

If it says you are at a positive frame advantage make a note of by how many frames. Like say +5. If you got a move that can be done in that many frames or less then you found a way to follow up the move that was +5 because your opponent cannot come out of stun sooner than your next move comes out.

Some stuff you just gotta check though. D2 just changed across the board. Go into the lab for stuff like this that will likely have incorrect frame data listed or stuff you are just curious on and set your opponent AI to "record" then have them do whatever move you want to test against. Now they will keep repeating whatever you recorded yourself doing as them and you can check and see what your options are versus these scenarios that you record and put into training mode. You can test how to block combos by doing one, recording it, and then practicing your timing on blocks. You can practice punishing or blocking moves like Scorpion's teleport, you can even practice simple stuff like D2 by having folks perform jump in attacks and checking to see if your D2 beats it, trades or loses to their jump in.

Training mode is great this way.

As for how to apply things if you see strings with enormous negative frames on hit or block that means its unsafe which means if you miss it...well...thats your ass.

Thats the basics. Use the training mode this way to practice how to move, get in on, punish, and straight up react/avoid things in the game as you discover things you have trouble with. Good luck and welcome aboard.

thanks man I definitely use training mode already like you just described. but yeah I think I'm starting to understand this frame lingo ^^ oh man I feel like a nerd badass now haha : P

 

[Chongo]

another thing too let's say a move that I use has very slight negative block advantage... what does mean for me? Like I get what it's saying but what would a smart player do in that kind of situation? I just need some basic guidance. : P

In NRS games, the fastest jabs are 6 frames, so anything under 6 frames would cause you to be -, but still safe, as you could block before an opponent can punish. Say you do something that leaves you at -5, and your opponent has a 6 frame down 1. If you block, he cannot punish you, but he will be able to get a free d1 check.

 

[Foreskin Fissure]

I think this thread would be a good place to ask this, why is it that start up frames on a normal and startup frames on a string show different data? Ex: 2 9frames vs 22 15frames

 

[Indecision]

In NRS games, the fastest jabs are 6 frames, so anything under 6 frames would cause you to be -, but still safe, as you could block before an opponent can punish. Say you do something that leaves you at -5, and your opponent has a 6 frame down 1. If you block, he cannot punish you, but he will be able to get a free d1 check.

that advice is huuuge holy shit dude thanks!

 

[Chongo]

I think this thread would be a good place to ask this, why is it that start up frames on a normal and startup frames on a string show different data? Ex: 2 9frames vs 22 15frames

For the 22, the 15 frames is referring to the 2nd 2.

So according to your data, in the string 22
The red 2 would have 9 frames of startup
The blue 2 would have 15 frames of startup

 

[Indecision]

In NRS games, the fastest jabs are 6 frames, so anything under 6 frames would cause you to be -, but still safe, as you could block before an opponent can punish. Say you do something that leaves you at -5, and your opponent has a 6 frame down 1. If you block, he cannot punish you, but he will be able to get a free d1 check.

just to make sure I'm reading this correctly. I looked up batgirls D1 and it says "start up frames 8" were you just mistaken? or maybe I'm not understanding something? or maybe batgirl is unique in this regard? hmm~

or maybe you just mean the quickest possible jabs in a NRS game are 6 frame startups? ^^

 

[Chongo]

just to make sure I'm reading this correctly. I looked up batgirls D1 and it says "start up frames 8" were you just mistaken? or maybe I'm not understanding something? or maybe batgirl is unique in this regard? hmm~

Frame data varies from character to character. The fastest d1 a character could have is 6 frames, but there are 7 frame d1s and 8 frame d1s.

 

[Foreskin Fissure]

For the 22, the 15 frames is referring to the 2nd 2.

So according to your data, in the string 22
The red 2 would have 9 frames of startup
The blue 2 would have 15 frames of startup

Ty f or the info and would it be the same thing for three hit strings like 223 for example?

 

[Indecision]

Frame data varies from character to character. The fastest d1 a character could have is 6 frames, but there are 7 frame d1s and 8 frame d1s.

gotcha gotcha thanks again man you've been really helpful

 

[Chongo]

gotcha gotcha thanks again man you've been really helpful

No problem man, I remember when I didn't really get the stuff, people had helped me and I just wanted to return the favor . If you have any questions, PM me, I'm happy to help if I possibly can.

Ty f or the info and would it be the same thing for three hit strings like 223 for example?

Yep, if its frame data for a string, the data is for the last hit of said string.

 

[ThaShiveGeek]

Great thread. Once we start to learn frame data we're getting to where we need to be. This is the point where it becomes more then just a hobby.

 

[Indecision]

Great thread. Once we start to learn frame data we're getting to where we need to be. This is the point where it becomes more then just a hobby.

hey I remember you! wern't you the guy who said he was struggling to overcome the habits of playing to look stylish versus playing to win?

 

[ThaShiveGeek]

hey I remember you! wern't you the guy who said he was struggling to overcome the habits of playing to look stylish versus playing to win?

Yeah I posted that thread a few days ago.

 

[TaffyMeat]

I'm just getting into Frame Data, having put it off for 5 years. I feel very put off by it because to me, it seems like everybody wants to be + on block, and nobody wants - on block. Thereby everyone only uses moves that puts them into situations where they can move before opponents recovery animation. Which means that people limit themselves by only using half of what their character can do. It seems like people don't take risks because everyone wants to win instead of learn. What about using - frames to bait your opponent? Meh.

 

[Indecision]

In an effort to help get my head around this can some explain a seemingly obvious thing?

Why can't d1 be comboed into another d1?

Ok so... I think using a silly example I can get my head around this. explaining why d1 can't be comboed by using another d1

so D1 has 8 start up frames and 13 recovery frames..so 21 frames in total to do the move yeah? The hit advantage is 12... so I'm taking that to mean that I can subtract that from 21... then I assume I then minus the "12" from the hit advantage giving me.. 9 frames to work with? Or is that 9 frames for them to work with? In which case it'd make sense that I wouldn't be able to combo it since they'd have 9 frames to react? Yeah I've no idea what I'm talking about haha xD someone help a brother out : P

 

[Alien Substance]

Indecision

The Frame Data does not allow for a D1 to combo into another D1 because there is not enough hit advantage to repeatedly D1 your opponent to death. Even if there was, I don't believe a D1 into D1 would true combo, meaning your opponent would be able to block it and benefit from the possible block disadvantage you are left in.

In this "non-true combo" instance, despite your opponent being unable to do anything because of the hit advantage of your D1, he can still block your next attack.