Nightwolf Matchup (MU) Thread!

[CrescentMoon4ever]

This thread is to discuss any best to worst and even MUs for our Wolf. Well lets discuss away!

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Subject to change as I learn more about the Matokan Shaman but I feel these are his MU's from what I've encountered so far for Matoka Warrior:

Winning:
Shang Tsung - Warlock
Jade - Emerald Defender
Cetrion - FON
Kollector - Spare Change
Kitana - Fan Fair
Kano - Ripper
Kotal - Ascension

Losing:
Noob(Shadows go through his Reflect)
Sonya - Ring Master(he can't counter her zoning)
Geras(all his stuff goes through reflect)
Scorpion - Reborn



Even:
Spring Cleaning-Cetrion
Cassie - Digital & Yaas Queen
Liu Kang - LHQ & WSL
Kollector - BITP
D'Vorah - Arachnophobia

That's all I've got so far but that's how it feels so far but anything could change as MU's develop and tech is discovered.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Maybe Losing to Sonya and Noob, but i don't really see him lose to Scorpion or Geras, specially beause having reflect doesn't mean its a polarizing MU, just a though

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Maybe Losing to Sonya and Noob, but i don't really see him lose to Scorpion or Geras, specially beause having reflect doesn't mean its a polarizing MU, just a though

Im saying that because his fullscreen locks up Nightwolf in Matoka forcing him to crouch block without playing neutral/footsies.
Geras has great mids and staggers and amazing mix with insane damage and KB's there isn't a place where I feel geras loses to him on screen. Take into account NW's KB's are tied to very unsafe coynterable moves with 312 being high - high - overhead which is reactable and has a 6f gap which geras can exploit. His other KB is off his Rhino Charge and has a 10f gap so if both hitsare done on block its countered by the same timing.
So NW can do it from range to make first hit Wiff so there isn't a gap but Geras has an answer for that, his projectiles control the neutral and remove NW's capability to back dash into required distance to set up the Shoulder KB.
Then add Geras has throw loops on both and a plethora if scary KB's and even midscreen standing resets into looping pressure.
I'm sure its winable but I think its in Geras's favor at least slightly.

For Scorpion I feel it matters that spear and TP can't be reflected and he has tools to be full screen and stay safe while chucking spears for chip. Scorpion may have a High TP now but his gameplay at high level hasn't changed and he still gets s4 restands into 21 jailing pressure being +18 on hit and +2 on block with very decent KB's and amazing mids which auto shimmy and outrage NW or simply beat his to the punch. Scorpion still has F3 staggers and strong muxup potential which controlling neutral and limiting what NW can do from the draw since his F2 us reactable and most of his buttons are Wiff punishable with TP

 

[Eddy Wang]

Im saying that because his fullscreen locks up Nightwolf in Matoka forcing him to crouch block without playing neutral/footsies.
Geras has great mids and staggers and amazing mix with insane damage and KB's there isn't a place where I feel geras loses to him on screen. Take into account NW's KB's are tied to very unsafe coynterable moves with 312 being high - high - overhead which is reactable and has a 6f gap which geras can exploit. His other KB is off his Rhino Charge and has a 10f gap so if both hitsare done on block its countered by the same timing.
So NW can do it from range to make first hit Wiff so there isn't a gap but Geras has an answer for that, his projectiles control the neutral and remove NW's capability to back dash into required distance to set up the Shoulder KB.
Then add Geras has throw loops on both and a plethora if scary KB's and even midscreen standing resets into looping pressure.
I'm sure its winable but I think its in Geras's favor at least slightly.

For Scorpion I feel it matters that spear and TP can't be reflected and he has tools to be full screen and stay safe while chucking spears for chip. Scorpion may have a High TP now but his gameplay at high level hasn't changed and he still gets s4 restands into 21 jailing pressure being +18 on hit and +2 on block with very decent KB's and amazing mids which auto shimmy and outrage NW or simply beat his to the punch. Scorpion still has F3 staggers and strong muxup potential which controlling neutral and limiting what NW can do from the draw since his F2 us reactable and most of his buttons are Wiff punishable with TP

Nightwolf has a shoulder charge anyting unsafe for whatever reason his charge covers its unsafe regardless, this applies both to Geras and Scorpion spear. Since the Shoulder Tackle startup its 12f meaning its far more powerful than Skarlet's F2 which punishes mostly anything
The character is fresh is out for like 3 days? give time ppl will develop.

Also also, the good strat in fighting games is when they know your weakness, so they can expect you to play one dimentional when in fact you can counter everything

 

[TyCarter35]

So I main Jax Hunker Down and I have played around with Nightwolf (Ancestral) and faced a fair share of Makota players.

Right now Fullscreen NW has a slight advantage over Jax, being able to reflect GP hurts Jax a lot however Jax can trade with his arrows and this can lead to Jax heating up, heat missiles if Jax fires a single one he can block and he safe, Ancestral can tp amp the second and for Makota it just trades one if Jax fires two heat missiles

Neutral they're about even, both have similar range tho Jax has slightly faster advancing mids helping him out. Charge and Stiff Arm are relatively comparable tho charge can be OS where u can poke out the OH from charge amp and easier to deal with compared to stiff arm

Upclose Jax has a slight advantage at best where his stagger game is a little stronger but not by much,his stagger game has the threat of a KB at any time (Quad Grab) and three if he is fully heated (forward throw, 1+3 ender and Quad Grab) and he bullies Nightwolf harder on Oki in many ways (u3 is low profilable, stubby etc) along with corner restand shenanigans. As for Nightwolf, Ancestral has a scarier stagger game where tick throw options are more open and the mix is there as well. His oki is even stronger (+69 on amp for cmd grab) Although he still has to respect Jax's u3 that covers a lot of range tho he can jump it or back off to reset neutral so NW still bullies Jax a decent amt with Jax having a slightly better time dealing with it on his end. Both have d1 special/cmd grab mind games, Jax hits harder than NW Ancestral giving him a slight advantage and Makota doesn't have as strong of an oki game in exchange for better damage and not nearly as strong of a mixup game as Ancestral but one that hits harder. they are relatively equal in the pokes department and Nightwolf should never be using d4 against Jax tbh due to it having awful range (less than d3 smh) and d3 and d1 are both solid and Jax can gimmick sometimes with d12 tho it is a gimmick and are practically the same in startup.


Overall my still early conclusion is that both variations of NW is 5-5 against HD Jax

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

So I main Jax Hunker Down and I have played around with Nightwolf (Ancestral) and faced a fair share of Makota players.

Right now Fullscreen NW has a slight advantage over Jax, being able to reflect GP hurts Jax a lot however Jax can trade with his arrows and this can lead to Jax heating up, heat missiles if Jax fires a single one he can block and he safe, Ancestral can tp amp the second and for Makota it just trades one if Jax fires two heat missiles

Neutral they're about even, both have similar range tho Jax has slightly faster advancing mids helping him out. Charge and Stiff Arm are relatively comparable tho charge can be OS where u can poke out the OH from charge amp and easier to deal with compared to stiff arm

Upclose Jax has a slight advantage at best where his stagger game is a little stronger but not by much,his stagger game has the threat of a KB at any time (Quad Grab) and three if he is fully heated (forward throw, 1+3 ender and Quad Grab) and he bullies Nightwolf harder on Oki in many ways (u3 is low profilable, stubby etc) along with corner restand shenanigans. As for Nightwolf, Ancestral has a scarier stagger game where tick throw options are more open and the mix is there as well. His oki is even stronger (+69 on amp for cmd grab) Although he still has to respect Jax's u3 that covers a lot of range tho he can jump it or back off to reset neutral so NW still bullies Jax a decent amt with Jax having a slightly better time dealing with it on his end. Both have d1 special/cmd grab mind games, Jax hits harder than NW Ancestral giving him a slight advantage and Makota doesn't have as strong of an oki game in exchange for better damage and not nearly as strong of a mixup game as Ancestral but one that hits harder. they are relatively equal in the pokes department and Nightwolf should never be using d4 against Jax tbh due to it having awful range (less than d3 smh) and d3 and d1 are both solid and Jax can gimmick sometimes with d12 tho it is a gimmick and are practically the same in startup.


Overall my still early conclusion is that both variations of NW is 5-5 against HD Jax

Very good post. I'd like to add something. I was getting advice from Sonic on his stream and he mentioned both NW and Jax shouldn't Tick throw off there strings because its out of your favor being so little of reward vs risk and its better to delay the CMD Grab than to Tick it.
So even though nightwolf ancestral has tick off the following:
1
11
D1
D3
D4
F2121

And Jax only has a few from pokes
Its not something NW would gain advantage from unless the opponent made bad read after bad read. Since NW spends a bar for 15% while the opponent hits you for 25-50% every time they guess right (depending on character).
But I do think you made a good breakdown of the MU.
Personally I feel the MU hasn't fully developed between them and there is more tech to be discovered regarding Nightwolf Ancestral Gift and possibly even Matoka Warrior.

I main Ancestral because I like the pressure it adds and I feel he gains more off his staggers and gets a very strong mix off s3(stagger)b341+3(20%)/312 on the 3rd hit its either Overhead/Low and then add the layers of s3/31/B34D4 and CMD Grab. He also gains two additional KB's in this variation that both do more than 27% and gets amazing anti wakeup setups from Amped CMD Grab (+70) and Oki. I'm getting about 30% from JIK's and 20% from unbreakable restands midscreen and 35% in the corner. Add all his KB's and I feel the damage disparity isn't a big deal (8%??)
But I'll admit the corner carry and buff is nice in Matoka Warrior!

 

[kcd117]

Played a lot of matches with Ancestral Gift and Matoka.

Matoka struggles a bit against some of the heavier zoners but with Ancestral, the only matchups I’d put as really problematic are Scorpion and Geras, with an honorable mention to Skarlet, which I think can be bad but I just feel like I’m not playing it right atm.

 

[TyCarter35]

Very good post. I'd like to add something. I was getting advice from Sonic on his stream and he mentioned both NW and Jax shouldn't Tick throw off there strings because its out of your favor being so little of reward vs risk and its better to delay the CMD Grab than to Tick it.
So even though nightwolf ancestral has tick off the following:
1
11
D1
D3
D4
F2121

And Jax only has a few from pokes
Its not something NW would gain advantage from unless the opponent made bad read after bad read. Since NW spends a bar for 15% while the opponent hits you for 25-50% every time they guess right (depending on character).
But I do think you made a good breakdown of the MU.
Personally I feel the MU hasn't fully developed between them and there is more tech to be discovered regarding Nightwolf Ancestral Gift and possibly even Matoka Warrior.

I main Ancestral because I like the pressure it adds and I feel he gains more off his staggers and gets a very strong mix off s3(stagger)b341+3(20%)/312 on the 3rd hit its either Overhead/Low and then add the layers of s3/31/B34D4 and CMD Grab. He also gains two additional KB's in this variation that both do more than 27% and gets amazing anti wakeup setups from Amped CMD Grab (+70) and Oki. I'm getting about 30% from JIK's and 20% from unbreakable restands midscreen and 35% in the corner. Add all his KB's and I feel the damage disparity isn't a big deal (8%??)
But I'll admit the corner carry and buff is nice in Matoka Warrior!

One thing I forgot to mention, considering 111/112 is an auto shimmy catching someone with 1 and 11 tick throw a fair bit is likely but with 11 tick throw Jax just has to press any button (standing normals included) to interrupt, oh and forgot to mention Makota Warrior armored setup rlly does make Jax have to at least respect his oki in a way so there's that too considering his u3 is one of the best ones in the game which comes down to valuing hit advantage in ancestral (especially off command grab) or armored setup in Makota to discourage wakeup attacks

 

[dead guy]

Im having a lot of trouble with Nightwolf vs Skarlet. (variation 1)
He cannot reflect her dogdick projectile that hits mid making zoning in her favor.
Dogdick also causes Skarlet's head to dip down in the animation, causing her to duck NWs arrow which makes the zoning even more in her favor when trying to trade.

Once NW closes the gap, Skarlet is also effective up close and trap NW with normal xx amp slow ball. It feels like she overwhelms him from anywhere. My only hope in this MU is variation 2 thanks to the teleport, but even this its an uphill battle once NW is in range.

Random shoulder charge works wonders in this MU as well.

 

[TyCarter35]

Im having a lot of trouble with Nightwolf vs Skarlet. (variation 1)
He cannot reflect her dogdick projectile that hits mid making zoning in her favor.
Dogdick also causes Skarlet's head to dip down in the animation, causing her to duck NWs arrow which makes the zoning even more in her favor when trying to trade.

Once NW closes the gap, Skarlet is also effective up close and trap NW with normal xx amp slow ball. It feels like she overwhelms him from anywhere. My only hope in this MU is variation 2 thanks to the teleport, but even this its an uphill battle once NW is in range.

Random shoulder charge works wonders in this MU as well.

I've labbed a tiny bit of Ancestral Gift but if Skarlet tries doing her blood ball into tentacle shit he can reflect the blood ball and tp to avoid the blood tentacle and start pressuring her since the blood ball is coming to her at that point. The other thing is that Nightwolf doesn't have the best normals to handle her 21 stagger shit or any of her longer range normals for the most part since ur best shot is a 13 frame mid which is ok but not super great

 

[Mandolore1123]

Played a few games against a Ring Master Sonya, seems that if I reflect back the first ring even if I get hit by the second one it doesn’t trigger the KB? Is this for real?

 

[gtmSeventH]

How do you all approach the Jacqui MU? I get the whole zoning aspect, but when she's in where do we start trying to take our turn back?

 

[dead guy]

How do you all approach the Jacqui MU? I get the whole zoning aspect, but when she's in where do we start trying to take our turn back?

So far I'm using d3 more than anything against Jacqui pressure. If D3 hits I jail into 111 and begin the stagger mindgame on her. NW throw game is dirty as well I know its jacqui but I think his throws should still be enforced due to having 2 KB throws and a great stagger game with 111, b1, for b34.

 

[Wigy]

Any advice for noob. His pokes contest night wolf very well up close and he can keep you out pretty horribly?

Seems solidly advantage for noob.

 

[DrZmmm]

Any advice for noob. His pokes contest night wolf very well up close and he can keep you out pretty horribly?

Seems solidly advantage for noob.

If they are using SD...zone and stay out of slide range. There's not much Noob can do against it.

 

[Ac3s777]

i think that nightwolf's v2 beats spawn pretty good i have yet to lose that match up in KL

 

[Ace255]

What do y'all think of Nightwolf's matchups in Ultimate with customs? I think he is even in a lot of matchups and struggles in some. Idk which ones he would win I barely started playing him more recently. I think he struggles against all the male ninjas and characters with long range like Joker, Jade, Spawn, etc. Also characters who can counter his reflector like Shang and Sonya with the ring KB. I would say he is even with Mileena and Cassie and most other characters who can't outspace him. I think he wins some matchups against zoners like Skarlet and Robocop. Rain is the only character up close who I think gives Nightwolf trouble because of his movement. Jax may also be an issue with his pressure/staggers.

 

[Kodachi]

Kung Lao is a nightmare somedays... I dont have much issues with the ninjas though, he has enough mixups to keep people on they toes not alot of people use him so rarely anyone has enough experience against him

 

[Ace255]

Kung Lao is a nightmare somedays... I dont have much issues with the ninjas though, he has enough mixups to keep people on they toes not alot of people use him so rarely anyone has enough experience against him

I think Kung Lao can give him a hard time probably because of his air mobility and space control. I do think the ninjas give him trouble imo. If it is a good player I think Rain, Scorp, and Sub Zero all make Nightwolf struggle. Rain's movement and space control outdoes Nightwolf imo and Scorp and Sub i would say can outspace Nightwolf and have better buttons upclose.