Nightwing Matchups by the Numbers

[Macdaddy]

Would like to see what you guys think of Nightwing Matchups numbering the matchups, as im aware there is already a thread which merely overviews each matchup. This is what I have so far and im open to discussion for sure. I am biased as I play online a lot and I feel some matchups like vs superman would be easier without any lag. Here goes: (In order of Pig's Tier List)
(NW-Opponent)
Killer Frost 4-6*
Aqua Man 5-5
Black Adam 4-6
Superman 4-6
Wonder Woman 5-5*
Scorpion 5-5
Batman 6-4
Bat Girl 6-4
Sinestro 6-4
Green Lantern 4-6
Nightwing 5-5
Catwoman 5-5
Flash 6-4
Deathstroke 6-4
Arrow 6-4
Doomsday 6-4
Raven 6-4
Grundy 7-3
Ares 6-4
HawkGirl 4-6
Shazam 5-5
Harley Quinn 4-6
Cyborg 5-5*
Lex Luthor 7-3
Bane 7-3
Joker 6-4*
Lobo 6-4

13 Winning matchups
6 Losing matchups
7 Even matchups
*-Not a lot of experience with Matchup

 

[1truking]

Interesting why do you place grundy match as a 7-3? Most good grundy's actually have it 6-4 grundy or 5-5.

 

[Macdaddy]

I actually play Grundy a lot and Its hard when chars like NW use spacing properly, and wingdings are extremely strong vs Grundy. I also find NWs weakest points lie in chars with strong air games whereas grundy has none. I just think NW's Spacing game is too good. I personally think grundys find NW easier cause so many NWs dont zone as much as they should, and just go ham rushdown too much which plays into grundys favor.

 

[1truking]

I actually play Grundy a lot and Its hard when chars like NW use spacing properly, and wingdings are extremely strong vs Grundy. I also find NWs weakest points lie in chars with strong air games whereas grundy has none. I just think NW's Spacing game is too good. I personally think grundys find NW easier cause so many NWs dont zone as much as they should, and just go ham rushdown too much which plays into grundys favor.

No thats just it. All NW zone against grundy but it doesn't work. Wing dings can be wcc on reaction and you get a full combo out of it. Staff ground pound doesn't track so grundy can actualy dash after blocking one and force you to meterburn it to track him. Grundy takes the zoning tools away from him provided you're on your game with grundy. Any losses I take against nightwings with grundy are because I went for oki when I should've baited it instead the zoning portion not a big deal. Though if you're talking about online then lag can change things. WCCC is significantly harder online its more difficult to react to wing dings. If you really want to be annoying you can put on the defense trait and just block the zoning forcing him to come to you.

 

[Macdaddy]

i dont think its terribly hard for grundy to get in but the point is even up close with staff i find it incredibly easy to space out grundy and avoid all grappling. Keeping him at the end of 1f2, b1 j2. And all grundys options will require meter. I jump grundys bf3 on reaction to full combo and grundys jump in is a joke. it just seems really easy in all areas.

 

[1truking]

i dont think its terribly hard for grundy to get in but the point is even up close with staff i find it incredibly easy to space out grundy and avoid all grappling. Keeping him at the end of 1f2, b1 j2. And all grundys options will require meter. I jump grundys bf3 on reaction to full combo and grundys jump in is a joke. it just seems really easy in all areas.

Best range for grundy against staff is about 2/3 3/4 of the screen away. up closer standing 2 has pretty similiar range as the staff and can't be jumped consistently. At 2/3 screen range you can dash a ground pound and punish with relative consistentcy. And again its not about getting in with grundy its about punishing. The examples of using zoning to keep him out lead to punishes not grundy getting in. Every use of wing dings can lead to minimum 27% and at the proper heights 40-50% damage. If you land one trait you can activate defense and force nightwing to come to you if you have a life lead. Drastically changing the dynamics of the match.

 

[Macdaddy]

we can talk theory all day. if im really worried about grundy punishing my zoning or whatever, ill just bait his ex db2 all day and zone from there. Id be rattled if a grundy ever got offense off like a standing 2 with all the safe and quicker normals that nw has (basically all but nw's standing 2). Basically just have to watch for armored shit. I also find that wingdings can pretty much be confirmed against grundy. and if hes respecting too much abuse things like interactables. All that said id love to play any high level grundy's against my Nightwing; i feel like ive played a number of good ones, just felt way too one sided with the most viable options being used.

 

[Wasted]

Staff nightwing just neutral jumps any armored walking corpse and avoids the grab. His low jump is has the perfect timing to just smack Grundy on the way down after armor wears off.

GG. I won't say 7-3, since Grundy has EX hands, but 6-4 for sure.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Killer Frost 6-4
Aqua Man 5-5
Black Adam *
Superman 4-6
Wonder Woman 5-5
Scorpion *
Batman 6-4
Batgirl 5-5
Sinestro 6-4
Green Lantern 5-5
Nightwing 5-5
Catwoman *
Flash 6-4
Deathstroke 6-4
Arrow *
Doomsday 6-4
Raven 6-4
Grundy 5-5
Ares *
HawkGirl 4-6
Shazam 5-5
Harley Quinn 4-6
Cyborg *
Lex Luthor 6-4*
Bane 6-4*
Joker 6-4
Lobo *

*-Not a lot of experience with Matchup

This is pretty much my synopsis atm, subject to change on a whim lol. Couple notes:

-If Grundy couldn't duck Staff Spin MB, this matchup would be too free.
-I really don't think the game is so unbalanced that there's 7-3 matchups.
-Not going to comment matchups I haven't played enough unless I understand how it works on a decent level, hence why I do not have numbers for a lot of starred MUs, but do for Bane and Luthor.
-The number of positive matchups I have listed is pretty high, I'm sure, but I'm serious when I say this character is super good, and the random characters he loses to probably keeps people from seeing that.

Also, no "if you do x, then I'll just do y" discussion on MUs. Theoretically no one should ever be able to jump in on Grundy because he can just AA grab you, but we all know that's not the case. MB Swamp Hands just means I can't go ham with Seismos. Not a big deal.

The thing about Nightwing matchups is that you have to adjust how you play for so many matchups to deal with a variety of situations. But most of them do come back to getting your pressure started and then you basically win. Sure, GL can zone you pretty well, but once you're in, he can't do anything except die or YOLO slam. Compared to characters like Aquaman who control the space in front of them super well (he can actually contend with optimal Staff range) GL isn't all that threatening. Which is why I'll never see that as a bad matchup.

And then there's characters like Hawkgirl and Harley who have some glaring flaws, but still have the tools to get around your game. Except with those two you just have to accept stuff like they're Superman. No matter how much you adapt, moves like MB gunshot, MB eyebeam, and flight will never diminish in their importance as a tool against NW.

So yeah, I would say let's not jump to conclusions on these just yet, because there's still quite a bit (I don't think) we understand about NW.

Sent from the Batcave

 

[TheBoyBlunder]

I've had over 2000 matches with NW, from my experience. I'll star the match ups I don't have much EXP with.

Killer Frost 5-5 *
Aqua Man 4-6
Black Adam 4-6
Superman 5-5 (Theres no other character I played more than Superman. Once you get passed his lasers and fuzzy block with brilliance, it's a doable match up. Superman can't handle Nightwing's corner pressure, so that helps make it even)
Wonder Woman 5-5
Scorpion 7-3 (Punish that teleport punch all the time)
Batman 6-4
Batgirl 7-3 (Probably most predictable character in the game. I made an experience Batgirl player rage quit because I negated his teleport grab and punished it with 30% combo)
Sinestro 6-4 (A zoner with a great D2 and combos that can push you away. All very punishable though)
Green Lantern 6-4 (Negate that B1, punish Latern's might and his air dash with B2 into 30% combo, too predictable. GL is an easy character to learn, so most GL's game style is easy to negate if you handle the zoning and be very alert of his wake up)
Nightwing 5-5
Catwoman 4-6 (maybe 3-7, I've been scrubbed by a quality Catwoman player...it was close in the end, but always ended in an L)
Flash 6-4 (Haven't met a beast Flash player yet.)
Deathstroke 6-4 (Can't handle pressure, would be 7-3 but there are a lot of very good Deathstroke players who mix it up)
Arrow 7-3 (I probably got most of my victories against Green Arrows. Once you negate ice arrow, it's a wrap)
Doomsday 3-7* (I'm sorry, I'm just horrible against DD. Any advice? Grasias....)
Raven 5-5 (I would make this 4-6 soon, seems like a lot of people are catching onto Raven's dirty tricks...NW community needs to get together and figure out a gameplan against quality Raven players)
Grundy 5-5 (depends on the level of the Grundy player)
Ares 6-4 (Escrima Fury combo right into his teleport)
HawkGirl 4-6 (Would be 5-5, not enough experience against HG, random array of moves)
Shazam 6-4
Harley Quinn 5-5 (Competitive match up, both have very similar styles except HQ starts her combos from her lows more often)
Cyborg 2-8 (Worst match up for NW by far, if you ever played a Cyspammer you'll understand)
Lex Luthor 6-4 *
Bane 5-5
Joker 5-5
Zod 6-4 (special moves are easy to punish, my GF's bro is a Zod main and the match between us so far is 33 - 5 in favor of the Dick)
Lobo 6-4 *