What's new

New Patch, New Abigail's Garden Tech

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
So with the faster Abigail's Garden startup, Swamp Thing can now get a guaranteed trait setup in the corner, but he sacrifices a good amount of damage.

If the last hit of F233 hits in the corner (which it does pretty often if you mixup your footsies) you can d2xTrait and then immediately whiff a F2 over the opponent before returning to block. This places Abigail's Garden underneath them and you can backup to start your pressure.

There are a few guaranteed combos into trait I also found that I'll share later. Nothing groundbreaking so far, but I'll wait before I criticize NRS' ability to understand this character properly.
 

Percimon

Sky above, Voice within
This armor buff is absolutely useless, because df1's animation is soooooo long and armor turns on only in case if vine touched opponent (don't forget that anyway you'll take a damage + trait goes away on hit + vine grab whiffs really bad).

Those buffs aren't buffs. They are just fixes.
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
There's no need to wait, criticize away. This is gross incompetence.

With how much damage you have to leave on the table to set up trait in combos, it's not viable at all, even in the corner. This character sucks.
I was trying to be optimistic but these buffs are so useless. You're sacrificing 200+ damage for the CHANCE to get some trait pressure. Swamp Thing balancer confirmed drooling, bumbling idiot.

At least his F3 doesn't whiff low profiles anymore and he got a ~6% health buff.

WATCH OUT TOP 8, THE SWAMP THING ARMY COMING
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
The trait armor tech will come in handy instead of trading against other projectiles just give it more time

It's definitely useful
A) Still requires a hard read.

B) Helps primarily vs Fate and Deadshot. Maybe Darkseid.

C) Green Thumb armor seems hyper situational. I couldn't get it to activate properly in training mode while testing various instances GT might trade.

D) MB dash is still a better use of resources vs zoning.

E) We are just salty bc upper mid-tier characters got hella buffs while the undisputable worst character in the game got a buff to a tool that doesn't fix any of his glaring issues.

F) I'm sure we will come across some rad trait tech, but I cannot really justify giving up half my damage just so I can use all my character's tools in most MUs.
 

MILE_HIGH_CLUB

FREEDOM'S LABORATORY
A) Still requires a hard read.

B) Helps primarily vs Fate and Deadshot. Maybe Darkseid.

C) Green Thumb armor seems hyper situational. I couldn't get it to activate properly in training mode while testing various instances GT might trade.

D) MB dash is still a better use of resources vs zoning.

E) We are just salty bc upper mid-tier characters got hella buffs while the undisputable worst character in the game got a buff to a tool that doesn't fix any of his glaring issues.

F) I'm sure we will come across some rad trait tech, but I cannot really justify giving up half my damage just so I can use all my character's tools in most MUs.
How does the armor on green thumb work? I'm about to post some small ideas I have so far
 

RNLDRGN

RONALD ROGAN
How does the armor on green thumb work? I'm about to post some small ideas I have so far
As far as I can tell a slow moving projectile (Cyborg, maybe Fate) will be armored through if it hits Swamp while he is doing GT.

I tried standing in his trait and doing GT vs various wakeup attacks and no armor activated. It's more of a fix than a buff.
 

Outside of the f3 hitbox fix, he's still just not good. @colt Please address. :16Bit
I'm still sitting at work after 11 hours so I haven't tested anything. But seeing yall try to activate trait while being zoned out does NOT seem to be the right time to activate trait. You have to treat his trait the same way Scarecrow does...when an opening presents itself. This is not a "get free trait activation to counterzone" tool. It's more of a "I've finally gotten in, i'm done some damage, and now that I have plus frames i'll trait up to gain armor when my opponent tries to run-away zone" type of tool.

With that said, he's probably still a walking puddle of swamp shit compared to the rest of the cast. But change your perspective in regards to his playstyle and trait activation
 

DeftMonk

Warrior

Outside of the f3 hitbox fix, he's still just not good. @colt Please address. :16Bit
The part of the vid with deadshot and fate kinda just showcases the changes they implemented really don't have any use. I feel bad for u guys, at least they didn't bother to tease joker players.
 

D. R.

Kombatant
I'm still sitting at work after 11 hours so I haven't tested anything. But seeing yall try to activate try while being zoned does NOT seem to be the time to activate trait. You have to treat his trait the same way Scarecrow does...when an opening presents itself. This is not a "get free trait activation to counterzone" tool. It's more of a "I've finally gotten in, i'm done some damage, and now that I have plus frames i'll trait up to gain armor when my opponent tries to run-away zone" type of tool.

With that said, he's probably still a walking puddle of swamp shit compared to the rest of the cast. But change your perspective in regards to his playstyle and trait activation
The thing with that is that Swamp Thing doesn't have the initial walk speed that Scarecrow has. Essentially, coming out of crouch and taking a step forward, Scarecrow trumps Swamp Thing. You can try it for yourself. Set Deadshot to "infinite" wrist shot and start fullscreen. Crouch walk your way forward and you'll see Scarecrow gets closer to Deadshot much faster than Swamp Thing easily. This new trait mechanic seemed the answer to alleviate his slow walk speed but nope. He's still shit.
 

DeftMonk

Warrior
I'm still sitting at work after 11 hours so I haven't tested anything. But seeing yall try to activate trait while being zoned out does NOT seem to be the right time to activate trait. You have to treat his trait the same way Scarecrow does...when an opening presents itself. This is not a "get free trait activation to counterzone" tool. It's more of a "I've finally gotten in, i'm done some damage, and now that I have plus frames i'll trait up to gain armor when my opponent tries to run-away zone" type of tool.

With that said, he's probably still a walking puddle of swamp shit compared to the rest of the cast. But change your perspective in regards to his playstyle and trait activation
Scarecrow doesn't get armor added to a full screen anti zoning move with his trait. If swamp things trait is intended to be implemented only during successful pressure... then why do it? Why not just combo for more damage and keep the spacing in a range that's ideal for swamp thing?

Swamp players can probably tell you about their worst matchups and why this change gave them hope... but if they knew trait was to be used as you said they would have not had any hope.
 

Wemfs

The only morality in a cruel world is chance.
@D. R. Do you think the game will be receiving another patch or do you think this is the final product?
 
The thing with that is that Swamp Thing doesn't have the initial walk speed that Scarecrow has. Essentially, coming out of crouch and taking a step forward, Scarecrow trumps Swamp Thing. You can try it for yourself. Set Deadshot to "infinite" wrist shot and start fullscreen. Crouch walk your way forward and you'll see Scarecrow gets closer to Deadshot much faster than Swamp Thing easily. This new trait mechanic seemed the answer to alleviate his slow walk speed but nope. He's still shit.
No doubt Scarecrow has a better walk speed, better mobility and better reach in the air. But he also doesn't have a full screen reaching special move (clone) nor a semi full screen grapple. He literally has to get in to do anything but by no means am I trying to up-play him i'm just stating facts. I'll give it shot when I finally get home though.

Scarecrow doesn't get armor added to a full screen anti zoning move with his trait. If swamp things trait is intended to be implemented only during successful pressure... then why do it? Why not just combo for more damage and keep the spacing in a range that's ideal for swamp thing?

Swamp players can probably tell you about their worst matchups and why this change gave them hope... but if they knew trait was to be used as you said they would have not had any hope.
You're right, Scarecrow doesn't get armor, but despite few Scarecrow players using it often, his DB2 eats projectiles. I've been using both characters exclusively the last 2-3 weeks so I have been giving them honest shots. The reason you would still use his trait is the same reason I would use Cheetahs trait...when the opportunity presents itself. She poses no complete full screen threat because even her furthest pounce comes up short and is easily fully combo punished with nearly every characters S1 as an anti-air.

Point being it's a tool that has to be used for the job it's suite for and thats once i've gotten in range that it can be implemented and utilized to my advantage.
As far as why not just combo for more damage is the same reason why a lot players sacrifice max combo damage...Okie and setups. Especially against highly mobile characters (Batman, Supergirl, Superman, Firestorm, or non-projectile characters) who rely a lot on their mobility for footsies this will cut down on their jumping or dashing putting you in a position to better impose your gameplay. This may be theory crafting but it's logical. I just want others to think outside the box and come up with some usefulness for what has been given. It may not cover the glaring flaws, but I believe there is still potential and @MILE_HIGH_CLUB is presenting some options.