General/Other - Unstoppable [Pre-XL] My Unstoppable Jason Rework.

[GGA Jeremiah]

I think every variation in MKX should have an ultimate design goal that shows the clear intention that NRS is going for. They should be posted when they patch MKX and give you reasons on why they change things. Here would be my Unstoppable Jason Rework patch changes.

Unstoppable theme: Through the tools of Resurrect, Rise and the new meter gain special (Jason Lives) Jason will be an extremely high health character that opponents will fear due to the high amount of damage they will have to inflict on Jason just to win 1 round. This variation will focus on gaining health through special moves and meter. Also meter will equal health for Jason in this variation because of his Resurrect passive.

Patch Notes:
Unstoppable Changes:

• Universal startup frame buffs for Rise, Corpse Walk, Jason Lives, and Jason Kills so they can activate more reliably.
• Punishment removed and changed into Jason Lives.
• Jason Lives: D,D 3. Over the course of 5 real seconds, Jason will slowly gain meter equal to 1 bar. If Jason gets hit the meter gain will be stopped. If Jason is taking chip damage his meter will still gain. Jason has to be hit for it to go away.
• Jason Kills: D,D 3 enhanced. At the same rate that Jason gains meter in Jason Lives, Jason will slowly lose his meter. While this is active Jason receives a 1.5 damage multiplier like he had in the old Rampant (Enhanced Punishment) move. However he can leave this on as long as Jason wants, or as long as he has meter. If Jason Lives is activated while Jason Kills is active, no meter will drain for 5 seconds, but Jason will still receive the damage buff. Turn off at anytime by inputting D,D 3 enhanced, even while getting hit by an enemy.
• Rise buff: Rise will heal 7.5% health over 5 seconds, up from 5% health over 6.5 seconds.
• Corpse Walk (Enhanced Rise) buff: Fixed the bug where Jason would heal the same amount as Rise. We are increasing the healing of Corpse Walk to be 15% health over 5 seconds. Also if you activate Corpse Walk while Rise is active, you will heal the rest of the health Rise was going to give you instantly.
• Example of Corpse Walk and Rise used together. Jason activates Rise and has healed for 2.5%. Jason activates Corpse Walk and immediately heals the rest of the 5% and begins the healing that Corpse Walk will give him.
• Resurrect with 1 bar will give you 10% health. (Unchanged in current version)
• Resurrect with 2 bars will give you 20% health. (Up from 16%)
• Resurrect with 3 bars will give you 30% health. (Up from 25%)
• Also you will receive health for all meter you have regardless of if you have a complete bar or not. So Jason with 90% of 1 bar will Resurrect with 9% health. If Jason has 1.5 bars he will Resurrect with 15% health.

Universal Jason Changes:

• Spine Shatter (DBF 1 Enhanced) and Crippler (DBF 2 Enhanced) can now choose which direction Jason throws his victim.
• Jason has a hard time dealing with low profiling moves such as Johnny Cages D4. We have found that Jason's best way of dealing with that is Brutal Boot (F3) and Shin Shatter (F4). However, these moves are just too slow in dealing with these moves.
• Brutal Boot (F3) will now have a startup of 15 frames (up from 24 frames.)
• Shin Shatter (F4) will now have a startup of 13 frames (up from 19 frames.)
• These changes should help Jason deal a little better with the low profiling.

Unstoppable Jason's meaningful choices:

What makes a fighting game character fun to play are the meaningful choices they have to make during a match. Great players, more often than not, will make the better choice over good players. Here are some of the choices the Unstoppable Jason player will have to make that should differentiate the good Jason player from the great Jason player.

• I landed my BnB combo, should I use Rise, or Jason Lives after it?
• When should I attempt to use Rise and then Corpse Walk immediately after to receive the instant heal bonus?
• Should I use my meter for Jason Kills or Resurrect at the end of the match?
• When should I use Jason Lives into Jason Kills so I don't lose meter?
• I have Jason Kills active but I am getting hurt in a full combo. Should I turn off Jason Kills to stop the meter draining, or should I leave it active and get a nice 27% 1 bar command grab on wakeup?
• I am getting destroyed this round. Should I save my meter and not Resurrect? (This choice was added last patch, but should now be a more meaningful choice due to the Unstoppable buffs Jason has just received.)
• I am getting close to death and only have 1 bar. Should I just save that for a guaranteed 10% Resurrect, or should I go for the risky Rise into Corpse Walk sequence to heal 22.5%, but if I get hit out of it I wasted my bar and the round.

So there you guys have it. What do you think about my Unstoppable changes? Also do you think that NRS should have this level of clarity in their patches so we all have a better idea of what they want to achieve with all their variations.

@YOMI REO (Also REO I think you should do something like this for Relentless Jason. I know you have your buff Jason thread and it is awesome, but try having fun writing it like it would be actual patch notes. Lets get the right people reading these so we can PROUDLY main Jason after the next patch)
@BiPolarExxpress
@Kinetic Balding1
@Hidan
@Eldriken
@Slips I know you don't know a ton about Jason, but you have said before that NRS should communicate better with their patches. Do you think a write up like this is what you are looking for?
@Pig Of The Hut would you appreciate it if NRS did a full write up like this for all Kenshi variations, that way you could argue where they have failed in your opinion?
@GGA Dizzy because you love talking ALL things Unstoppable Jason.

 

[Eldriken]

Very nice list. If these changes were implemented I might just use Unstoppable.

 

[HuttonMD]

I Dont know much about Jason so I can't comment on the buffs but I do agree that I wish the developers would give explanations on why they do some things in patches.

I think some nerfs would be taken better by the community if it came with an explanation even if its as simple as, we didn't intend for this character to play that way so we wanna change it more to our vision

 

[Dizzy]

Pretty interesting changes. Unstoppable currently is weak and needs something. I'm not sure if letting Jason get a bar off any B&B would be a good idea. Wouldn't it just make it so there's almost no reason to not end your combos in something like F44 cancelled into meter gain special? Maybe make the move not be able to be cancelled into from normals/strings and I think this would make sense. Otherwise with the meter gain at that rate you'll get probably half a bar before the opponent would even get to you, aside from yolo fullscreen wakeup attacks.

I think command grabs being able to choose the direction thrown would be the biggest buff Jason could get. That alone would probably make Relentless viable, and possibly Unstoppable as well (though unstoppable needs a few buffs to his variation specific stuff for sure) It would absolutely be a huge buff as it would make b1 cmd grab tick throws an amazing guessing game on a cornered opponent. Currently the guessing game is great on b1, but the reward on a cornered opponent can actually be bad.

 

[Hidan]

I think every variation in MKX should have an ultimate design goal that shows the clear intention that NRS is going for. They should be posted when they patch MKX and give you reasons on why they change things. Here would be my Unstoppable Jason Rework patch changes.

Unstoppable theme: Through the tools of Resurrect, Rise and the new meter gain special (Jason Lives) Jason will be an extremely high health character that opponents will fear due to the high amount of damage they will have to inflict on Jason just to win 1 round. This variation will focus on gaining health through special moves and meter. Also meter will equal health for Jason in this variation because of his Resurrect passive.

Patch Notes:
Unstoppable Changes:

• Universal startup frame buffs for Rise, Corpse Walk, Jason Lives, and Jason Kills so they can activate more reliably.
• Punishment removed and changed into Jason Lives.
• Jason Lives: D,D 3. Over the course of 5 real seconds, Jason will slowly gain meter equal to 1 bar. If Jason gets hit the meter gain will be stopped. If Jason is taking chip damage his meter will still gain. Jason has to be hit for it to go away.
• Jason Kills: D,D 3 enhanced. At the same rate that Jason gains meter in Jason Lives, Jason will slowly lose his meter. While this is active Jason receives a 1.5 damage multiplier like he had in the old Rampant (Enhanced Punishment) move. However he can leave this on as long as Jason wants, or as long as he has meter. If Jason Lives is activated while Jason Kills is active, no meter will drain for 5 seconds, but Jason will still receive the damage buff. Turn off at anytime by inputting D,D 3 enhanced, even while getting hit by an enemy.
• Rise buff: Rise will heal 7.5% health over 5 seconds, up from 5% health over 6.5 seconds.
• Corpse Walk (Enhanced Rise) buff: Fixed the bug where Jason would heal the same amount as Rise. We are increasing the healing of Corpse Walk to be 15% health over 5 seconds. Also if you activate Corpse Walk while Rise is active, you will heal the rest of the health Rise was going to give you instantly.
• Example of Corpse Walk and Rise used together. Jason activates Rise and has healed for 2.5%. Jason activates Corpse Walk and immediately heals the rest of the 5% and begins the healing that Corpse Walk will give him.
• Resurrect with 1 bar will give you 10% health. (Unchanged in current version)
• Resurrect with 2 bars will give you 20% health. (Up from 16%)
• Resurrect with 3 bars will give you 30% health. (Up from 25%)
• Also you will receive health for all meter you have regardless of if you have a complete bar or not. So Jason with 90% of 1 bar will Resurrect with 9% health. If Jason has 1.5 bars he will Resurrect with 15% health.

Universal Jason Changes:

• Spine Shatter (DBF 1 Enhanced) and Crippler (DBF 2 Enhanced) can now choose which direction Jason throws his victim.
• Jason has a hard time dealing with low profiling moves such as Johnny Cages D4. We have found that Jason's best way of dealing with that is Brutal Boot (F3) and Shin Shatter (F4). However, these moves are just too slow in dealing with these moves.
• Brutal Boot (F3) will now have a startup of 15 frames (up from 24 frames.)
• Shin Shatter (F4) will now have a startup of 13 frames (up from 19 frames.)
• These changes should help Jason deal a little better with the low profiling.

Unstoppable Jason's meaningful choices:

What makes a fighting game character fun to play are the meaningful choices they have to make during a match. Great players, more often than not, will make the better choice over good players. Here are some of the choices the Unstoppable Jason player will have to make that should differentiate the good Jason player from the great Jason player.

• I landed my BnB combo, should I use Rise, or Jason Lives after it?
• When should I attempt to use Rise and then Corpse Walk immediately after to receive the instant heal bonus?
• Should I use my meter for Jason Kills or Resurrect at the end of the match?
• When should I use Jason Lives into Jason Kills so I don't lose meter?
• I have Jason Kills active but I am getting hurt in a full combo. Should I turn off Jason Kills to stop the meter draining, or should I leave it active and get a nice 27% 1 bar command grab on wakeup?
• I am getting destroyed this round. Should I save my meter and not Resurrect? (This choice was added last patch, but should now be a more meaningful choice due to the Unstoppable buffs Jason has just received.)
• I am getting close to death and only have 1 bar. Should I just save that for a guaranteed 10% Resurrect, or should I go for the risky Rise into Corpse Walk sequence to heal 22.5%, but if I get hit out of it I wasted my bar and the round.

So there you guys have it. What do you think about my Unstoppable changes? Also do you think that NRS should have this level of clarity in their patches so we all have a better idea of what they want to achieve with all their variations.

@YOMI REO (Also REO I think you should do something like this for Relentless Jason. I know you have your buff Jason thread and it is awesome, but try having fun writing it like it would be actual patch notes. Lets get the right people reading these so we can PROUDLY main Jason after the next patch)
@BiPolarExxpress
@Kinetic Balding1
@Hidan
@Eldriken
@Slips I know you don't know a ton about Jason, but you have said before that NRS should communicate better with their patches. Do you think a write up like this is what you are looking for?
@Pig Of The Hut would you appreciate it if NRS did a full write up like this for all Kenshi variations, that way you could argue where they have failed in your opinion?
@GGA Dizzy because you love talking ALL things Unstoppable Jason.

wow, you put some thought into this

Pretty interesting changes. Unstoppable currently is weak and needs something. I'm not sure if letting Jason get a bar off any B&B would be a good idea. Wouldn't it just make it so there's almost no reason to not end your combos in something like F44 cancelled into meter gain special? Maybe make the move not be able to be cancelled into from normals/strings and I think this would make sense

we can activate our current 46 frame duration buffs after midscreen bnbs without cancelling, anyway

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I think every variation in MKX should have an ultimate design goal that shows the clear intention that NRS is going for. They should be posted when they patch MKX and give you reasons on why they change things. Here would be my Unstoppable Jason Rework patch changes.

Unstoppable theme: Through the tools of Resurrect, Rise and the new meter gain special (Jason Lives) Jason will be an extremely high health character that opponents will fear due to the high amount of damage they will have to inflict on Jason just to win 1 round. This variation will focus on gaining health through special moves and meter. Also meter will equal health for Jason in this variation because of his Resurrect passive.

Patch Notes:
Unstoppable Changes:

• Universal startup frame buffs for Rise, Corpse Walk, Jason Lives, and Jason Kills so they can activate more reliably.
• Punishment removed and changed into Jason Lives.
• Jason Lives: D,D 3. Over the course of 5 real seconds, Jason will slowly gain meter equal to 1 bar. If Jason gets hit the meter gain will be stopped. If Jason is taking chip damage his meter will still gain. Jason has to be hit for it to go away.
• Jason Kills: D,D 3 enhanced. At the same rate that Jason gains meter in Jason Lives, Jason will slowly lose his meter. While this is active Jason receives a 1.5 damage multiplier like he had in the old Rampant (Enhanced Punishment) move. However he can leave this on as long as Jason wants, or as long as he has meter. If Jason Lives is activated while Jason Kills is active, no meter will drain for 5 seconds, but Jason will still receive the damage buff. Turn off at anytime by inputting D,D 3 enhanced, even while getting hit by an enemy.
• Rise buff: Rise will heal 7.5% health over 5 seconds, up from 5% health over 6.5 seconds.
• Corpse Walk (Enhanced Rise) buff: Fixed the bug where Jason would heal the same amount as Rise. We are increasing the healing of Corpse Walk to be 15% health over 5 seconds. Also if you activate Corpse Walk while Rise is active, you will heal the rest of the health Rise was going to give you instantly.
• Example of Corpse Walk and Rise used together. Jason activates Rise and has healed for 2.5%. Jason activates Corpse Walk and immediately heals the rest of the 5% and begins the healing that Corpse Walk will give him.
• Resurrect with 1 bar will give you 10% health. (Unchanged in current version)
• Resurrect with 2 bars will give you 20% health. (Up from 16%)
• Resurrect with 3 bars will give you 30% health. (Up from 25%)
• Also you will receive health for all meter you have regardless of if you have a complete bar or not. So Jason with 90% of 1 bar will Resurrect with 9% health. If Jason has 1.5 bars he will Resurrect with 15% health.

Universal Jason Changes:

• Spine Shatter (DBF 1 Enhanced) and Crippler (DBF 2 Enhanced) can now choose which direction Jason throws his victim.
• Jason has a hard time dealing with low profiling moves such as Johnny Cages D4. We have found that Jason's best way of dealing with that is Brutal Boot (F3) and Shin Shatter (F4). However, these moves are just too slow in dealing with these moves.
• Brutal Boot (F3) will now have a startup of 15 frames (up from 24 frames.)
• Shin Shatter (F4) will now have a startup of 13 frames (up from 19 frames.)
• These changes should help Jason deal a little better with the low profiling.

Unstoppable Jason's meaningful choices:

What makes a fighting game character fun to play are the meaningful choices they have to make during a match. Great players, more often than not, will make the better choice over good players. Here are some of the choices the Unstoppable Jason player will have to make that should differentiate the good Jason player from the great Jason player.

• I landed my BnB combo, should I use Rise, or Jason Lives after it?
• When should I attempt to use Rise and then Corpse Walk immediately after to receive the instant heal bonus?
• Should I use my meter for Jason Kills or Resurrect at the end of the match?
• When should I use Jason Lives into Jason Kills so I don't lose meter?
• I have Jason Kills active but I am getting hurt in a full combo. Should I turn off Jason Kills to stop the meter draining, or should I leave it active and get a nice 27% 1 bar command grab on wakeup?
• I am getting destroyed this round. Should I save my meter and not Resurrect? (This choice was added last patch, but should now be a more meaningful choice due to the Unstoppable buffs Jason has just received.)
• I am getting close to death and only have 1 bar. Should I just save that for a guaranteed 10% Resurrect, or should I go for the risky Rise into Corpse Walk sequence to heal 22.5%, but if I get hit out of it I wasted my bar and the round.

So there you guys have it. What do you think about my Unstoppable changes? Also do you think that NRS should have this level of clarity in their patches so we all have a better idea of what they want to achieve with all their variations.

@YOMI REO (Also REO I think you should do something like this for Relentless Jason. I know you have your buff Jason thread and it is awesome, but try having fun writing it like it would be actual patch notes. Lets get the right people reading these so we can PROUDLY main Jason after the next patch)
@BiPolarExxpress
@Kinetic Balding1
@Hidan
@Eldriken
@Slips I know you don't know a ton about Jason, but you have said before that NRS should communicate better with their patches. Do you think a write up like this is what you are looking for?
@Pig Of The Hut would you appreciate it if NRS did a full write up like this for all Kenshi variations, that way you could argue where they have failed in your opinion?
@GGA Dizzy because you love talking ALL things Unstoppable Jason.

Answering your question to me:
Not really because I've argued before and was told "you just need to AA shoulder more"

They in no way want him to be fixed or viable and congrats to YOMI who after 7 months fighting me now agree w me about Kenshi

Seriously djt MIT admit now publicly Kenshi sucks and needs help

Last ditch effort I'll make a "what he needs video"

 

[Dizzy]

wow, you put some thought into this

we can activate our current 46 frame duration buffs after midscreen bnbs without cancelling, anyway

The buffs are pretty weak though. No one really cares if you activate your buffs.

5% hp in 5 seconds is not comparable to 1 bar of meter in 5 seconds.

 

[buyacushun]

Idk Jason but om this sounds scary so good job!

I'd love if we got some notes when the patch. Always felt that communication should be key with companies that make things with such a invested community.

 

[Eldriken]

Idk Jason but om this sounds scary so good job!

I'd love if we got some notes when the patch. Always felt that communication should be key with companies that make things with such a invested community.

Agreed. It would be nice if they at least gave SOME info/hints about what they're working on for the next patch. Y'know, universal mechanics, specific characters, etc.

 

[BiPolarExxpress]

Hmm, interesting. The numbers might need a bit of tweaking but I like where you're going with this. The possible amount of health gain is a lot, it'd be a little crazy haha. Maybe make it 7 and 11% respectively? Either way we need to find a way to get it off with like 80 frames between the two haha, but being able to recycle that bar + get that health back is quite a loop. Jason struggles in building meter, but having pretty much an on demand bar is a lot. Maybe make it tick for less under pressure, or it gives less than a bar?

I like a lot of this because the current buffs just don't have a great payoff at the moment. With buffs like meter building, a useful health buff etc it would open up a lot more opportunity to play our game. In Relentless the threat of Pursuit gets people to commit to movement, which is really what we want as Jason since we rely on a lot of conditioning, whiff punishing etc. Currently in Unstoppable there is no reason to respect it. Pressure characters still get to abuse our weak buttons since they're well, terrible. Characters with decent zoning also have no reason to come in even with health buff going, since they can pretty much just chip that 5% away.

So basically I'd propose

The health buff being 7 and 11% respectively. (super open to the numbers btw, this is more of a first glance kind of post)
Meter gain buff giving less on chip, or less than a bar. (would much prefer option 1 as it fits our gameplan)
A longer d1 so we don't need to respect every instance of pressure. (even a tiny bit of pushback screws us)
Choke getting the previous scaling back, who would ever blow a bar for 2% unless it's taking a round?

Besides that, pretty much agree with everything. Great post!

 

[buyacushun]

How would things like jason lives into jason kills work? 2 full animations o is jason lives cancelled? I like the overall idea though, the numbers might be a bit much. Would need careful tweaking.

 

[Hidan]

The buffs are pretty weak though. No one really cares if you activate your buffs.

5% hp in 5 seconds is not comparable to 1 bar of meter in 5 seconds.

I was saying that we don't need cancel ability for buffs, wasn't talking about their quality