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Strategy - Master of Storms MoS Orb Trap Punishes

M

mrtom

Noob
I've been trying to figure out how to get respectable damage when an orb trap connects and here is what I've come up with so far. I couldn't really break 34% midscreen using one meter, hopefully someone will come up with something better that's practical online.

Orb Trap Punishes:
Midscreen:
34, BF3(21%)
NJP, 34, BF3 (24%)
B14, (EX)DF2, B14, BF3 (33%)
34, (EX)DF2, B11 1+3 (34%)

Corner:
NJP, B2, 214, DF2 (31%)
34, B14, (EX)DF3, B11 1+3 (38%)
NJP, B2, 214, (EX)DF2, B11 1+3 (40%)

Corner EX Orb Setups:
NJP, B2, 214, (EX)DB2 (26%)
34, B14, (EX)DF3, 214, (EX)DF2 (34%)
 
ToxicBaraka1210

ToxicBaraka1210

Stormlord Supreme
Midscreen:
F2, njp, f2,2+4, df2 (26%)
F2, njp, f2,2+4 ex df2, b14, bf3 (35%)
F22+4 ,F22+4, df2 or bf3 (28%)
F22+4, F22+4, ex df2, b14, bf3 (38%)
F22+4, B14, bf 3 (27%)
F22+4, B14, ex df2, B14, bf3 or b113 ender(37%)


Corner:
B2, 213, B111+3 (31%)
F2,2+4, 213, B113 (31%)
B2, 213, b11, ex df2, b14, bf3 (37%)
B2, 214, ex df2, b14, bf3 (39%)
njp, njp, d1, ex df2, b14, ex db1, b14, ex db3, 3, bf3 (41%)
F2,2+4, b14, ex df2, f2,2+4, DF2 or bf3 (38%)
F2,2+4, b14, ex df2, 214, df2 or bf3 (39%)
F2,2+4, 213, b14, ex df2, b14, bf3 (39%)
B2, 21, B14, exdf2, 214, df2 (40%)

Any high trap you can uppercut (40%) or njp opponent into (38%) and finishing with b2 214 ex df2 b113 in corner. decent one meter damage.

off that high trap midscreen can f224 into ex df2 b113 for 35% uppercut trap or 33% njp trap. extra njps add 1%. or use f224 b14 ex df2 b14 bf3 for 38% on uppercut trap.

ill edit more in when i can. might make vid of the hilarious meter wasting 41% i recorded.

Also we should eventually compile hard knockdown combos, which isnt much since only traps, f22+4, b113, and f4 do it it seems. 112 used to but no longer. Theyre good to get orbs out safely. You can on all knockdown moves but not safely. Many people confuse hard knockdowns with regular. Hard knockdowns do not let your opponent tech roll.

@TONY-T

cmon bro help me out. need a 45%+ orb punish somehow preferably less meter but ill take anythin for game ender lol.

@skrone @mrtom
added more. if cant double f224 just f224 b14 its only a % less.

 
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ToxicBaraka1210

ToxicBaraka1210

Stormlord Supreme
Tokiwartoothxdk said:
Nice, Right now im still working on Displacer, and seeing what characters that might do better against then TG, i will look more into MoS after
Click to expand...
Cool. Were in a good place right now as far as mos damage is concerned. everything cracks 40 now except for midscreen trap punish. the few 38s are good anyways considering. theres still prolly a touch more now. im looking.

also 41% corner punish for simple

b2, 214, exdf2, 214, df2 (41%)

f224, 21, b14, exdf2, 214, df2 (41%)

f224, 214, exdf2, 214, df2 (41%)

lol. been tryin too hard.
 
Last edited:
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
ToxicBaraka1210 said:
Cool. Were in a good place right now as far as mos damage is concerned. everything cracks 40 now except for midscreen trap punish. the few 38s are good anyways considering. theres still prolly a touch more now. im looking.

also 41% corner punish for simple

b2, 214, exdf2, 214, df2 (41%)

f224, 21, b14, exdf2, 214, df2 (41%)

f224, 214, exdf2, 214, df2 (41%)

lol. been tryin too hard.
Click to expand...
What do the new MoS combos look like with the new strings? I play mostly on PC so I haven't really started messing with the changes.
 
ToxicBaraka1210

ToxicBaraka1210

Stormlord Supreme
the string helps a couple midscreen combos get slightly better damage but it really helps the pressure game and getting orbs out. its more important for that than just the combos. just remember there is an armorable gap between f12 and b2 and mix it up and youll be fine.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
ToxicBaraka1210 said:
the string helps a couple midscreen combos get slightly better damage but it really helps the pressure game and getting orbs out. its more important for that than just the combos. just remember there is an armorable gap between f12 and b2 and mix it up and youll be fine.
Click to expand...
Ok not too much adjusting then. Now I wait.
 
skrone

skrone

cold blooded
When I am around sweep distance and catch someone in a trap, or when I launch someone into a high trap, pulling off the standard punishes isn't much of a problem. However, people start to fear the traps and I end up catching opponents outside of the f224 range and can only pull off a jik~bf3 to put them in jail in the corner. Does anyone have any longer range punishes that work better than this? (other than burning meter on EXdb1 and running in, that sucks) Or better yet, how do your setups change once people start to really fear the damage you can convert off the traps? Since a lot of my safe orbs come after a f224 I can sometimes complete a trap by getting an orb after a sweep(time this right on their wakeup and you can get a hard knockdown, orb, punish) but naturally, this is something that should NOT be done often. How are you mixing up your orb placements? Does anyone else feel where I'm coming from with this one? or am I just over thinking it?
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
skrone said:
When I am around sweep distance and catch someone in a trap, or when I launch someone into a high trap, pulling off the standard punishes isn't much of a problem. However, people start to fear the traps and I end up catching opponents outside of the f224 range and can only pull off a jik~bf3 to put them in jail in the corner. Does anyone have any longer range punishes that work better than this? (other than burning meter on EXdb1 and running in, that sucks) Or better yet, how do your setups change once people start to really fear the damage you can convert off the traps? Since a lot of my safe orbs come after a f224 I can sometimes complete a trap by getting an orb after a sweep(time this right on their wakeup and you can get a hard knockdown, orb, punish) but naturally, this is something that should NOT be done often. How are you mixing up your orb placements? Does anyone else feel where I'm coming from with this one? or am I just over thinking it?
Click to expand...
I played against someone the other day in a long set that started respecting the times I could put out orb. Sometimes I would run in, sometimes I can just superman, other times I just put up another orb so I can continue to pressure.

What exactly is "high trap" and what do you do to launch someone into them?
 
skrone

skrone

cold blooded
buyacushun said:
I played against someone the other day in a long set that started respecting the times I could put out orb. Sometimes I would run in, sometimes I can just superman, other times I just put up another orb so I can continue to pressure.

What exactly is "high trap" and what do you do to launch someone into them?
Click to expand...
say you have two high orbs, or a combination of a horizontal and high orb (vertical or diagonal) that the opponent does not immediately "run into" per se, but they either jump into it, or you knock them into it usually using d2 or njp.
What I am wondering, is how can we mix up our mid screen orb placement and setups more effectively. The last thing we want is people BAITING orb placement attempts. I find that the most successful matches I play are the ones that I can end quickly. There just doesn't seem to be an acceptable damage option from long range trap punishes, thus there has to be some way to reliably get back in their face and continue the frustrating pressure game. We don't want someone getting ballsy and thinking they can actually push buttons hahah
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
skrone said:
say you have two high orbs, or a combination of a horizontal and high orb (vertical or diagonal) that the opponent does not immediately "run into" per se, but they either jump into it, or you knock them into it usually using d2 or njp.
What I am wondering, is how can we mix up our mid screen orb placement and setups more effectively. The last thing we want is people BAITING orb placement attempts. I find that the most successful matches I play are the ones that I can end quickly. There just doesn't seem to be an acceptable damage option from long range trap punishes, thus there has to be some way to reliably get back in their face and continue the frustrating pressure game. We don't want someone getting ballsy and thinking they can actually push buttons hahah
Click to expand...
OK thanks. I figured that but just wanted to make sure. As for orb placement that's where I'm having trouble too. MoS doesn't have a lot of good on block options unless first orb is out and the orbs always end up in the same place and do nothing until connected.

When I was playing a scorpion player in a long set and would catch him with a potential frame trap. I would do f2,2+4 a lot and then do f2 and then f1. If this app is correct Raiden is +2 after f2 and f1 is 6 frames. I was able to catch this good scorpion player with it in our matches. I think this is really important now that we got the new f1 string. (That I can't really use because I'm on PC right now):(:( If f1,2 is still -3 BA and +17 HA that's pretty good. Also, it is my understanding that the b2 part for MoS and Disp. is exactly like the "2+4" part of f2,2+4 so that's also great to end on and it goes into a combo on hit.
 
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skrone

skrone

cold blooded
buyacushun said:
OK thanks. I figured that but just wanted to make sure. As for orb placement that's where I'm having trouble too. MoS doesn't have a lot of good on block options unless first orb is out and the orbs always end up in the same place and do nothing until connected.

When I was playing a scorpion player in a long set and would catch him with a potential frame trap. I would do f2,2+4 a lot and then do f2 and then f1. If this app is correct Raiden is +2 after f2 and f1 is 6 frames. I was able to catch this good scorpion player with it in our matches. I think this is really important now that we got the new f1 string. (That I can't really use because I'm on PC right now):(:( If f1,2 is still -3 BA and +17 HA that's pretty good. Also, it is my understanding that the b2 part for MoS and Disp. is exactly like the "2+4" part of f2,2+4 so that's also great to end on and it goes into a combo on hit.
Click to expand...
be careful with that f12b2 and overusing it. I know a lot of people love it and I did at first, but f12b2 is punishable on block and the opponent can armor through the last two hits. The string works well for punishing certain things, combo extension, and the OCCASIONAL orb placement. Once f12b2 becomes expected you WILL get blown up. Its a good tool in the right situation, but not a cure all workhorse. f224 is the better string imo. Its safe on block, special cancelable, and ends in a hard knockdown. The only real disadvantage is the 16f startup. That is where f12b2 can come into play as a useful tool to help train your opponent to behave. Sometimes when I have them conditioned for an f224 they will start trying to punish it with some move ~12-14f, which I will then punish with f12b2(this works especially well if they start getting predictable in their throw attempts) and continue the game plan. Once this behavior has been discouraged I go right back to the f224, or comboing into f224.
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
skrone said:
be careful with that f12b2 and overusing it. I know a lot of people love it and I did at first, but f12b2 is punishable on block and the opponent can armor through the last two hits. The string works well for punishing certain things, combo extension, and the OCCASIONAL orb placement. Once f12b2 becomes expected you WILL get blown up. Its a good tool in the right situation, but not a cure all workhorse. f224 is the better string imo. Its safe on block, special cancelable, and ends in a hard knockdown. The only real disadvantage is the 16f startup. That is where f12b2 can come into play as a useful tool to help train your opponent to behave. Sometimes when I have them conditioned for an f224 they will start trying to punish it with some move ~12-14f, which I will then punish with f12b2(this works especially well if they start getting predictable in their throw attempts) and continue the game plan. Once this behavior has been discouraged I go right back to the f224, or comboing into f224.
Click to expand...
So there is a gap between f1 and 2, and 2 and b2? You said people try to punish f2,2+4 with a ~12-14f move. I'm a bit confused on that. Would you advise to just end at f12? or just f1 on block? Wish you posted this before I remembered the MoS thread and posted that. lol
 
skrone

skrone

cold blooded
buyacushun said:
So there is a gap between f1 and 2, and 2 and b2? You said people try to punish f2,2+4 with a ~12-14f move. I'm a bit confused on that. Would you advise to just end at f12? or just f1 on block? Wish you posted this before I remembered the MoS thread and posted that. lol
Click to expand...
the gap is only between the 2 and the b2. The ~12-14f is not an exact number, the point I was trying to make, is that when someone reads a f224 and goes for the punish, they will sometimes use something other than their fastest poke or special since they feel like they can get away with it due to f224's startup frames, and they think they have the read, so they are feeling it. This is just a scenario I have found this to be useful in. This has worked really well for me so far, especially in the Kotal khan matchup, in keeping the guessing game going. Answering your question, on block, go with f12, its less negative on block than f1 if I remember right.
 
XxTheGoblinX

XxTheGoblinX

Le_Supreme_
Ive never seen this variation online. But do you guys think these traps can trap Tanya? Looks like they would keep her in check :mad:
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
XxTheGoblinX said:
Ive never seen this variation online. But do you guys think these traps can trap Tanya? Looks like they would keep her in check :mad:
Click to expand...
**This is all mental thought** Right now I'd have to say no. They come out about a step behind the opponent if he/she is next to Raiden. There is a lot of setup involved with MoS and the trap requires 2 orbs and hits once so to me it seems Raiden would just be helplessly fishing traps. I think Raiden would have to just play patient and work his way in unless Displacer does ex teleport. I think Raiden by himself might able to handle the teleports if he also jumps and buffers Fly but he might have to be quick if it is Pyro Tanya. I wouldn't really use this variation for someone who can focus on zoning out their opponents.

Thats just my 2 cents but I haven't been able to try out this matchup.
 
ToxicBaraka1210

ToxicBaraka1210

Stormlord Supreme
depends how good the tanya is. he can zone her out with high orb traps but drill can reach if you get too close. ex will go through but shes free comin down since armors gone. when she has no meter she has no choice but to wait till you mess up grid if you keep proper range.

he does better than most chars with her teleport. she cant just throw out teles but if you get wrecked by blockstring thats somethin else. good luck f1 or f2 vs her.
 
XxTheGoblinX

XxTheGoblinX

Le_Supreme_
buyacushun said:
**This is all mental thought** Right now I'd have to say no. They come out about a step behind the opponent if he/she is next to Raiden. There is a lot of setup involved with MoS and the trap requires 2 orbs and hits once so to me it seems Raiden would just be helplessly fishing traps. I think Raiden would have to just play patient and work his way in unless Displacer does ex teleport. I think Raiden by himself might able to handle the teleports if he also jumps and buffers Fly but he might have to be quick if it is Pyro Tanya. I wouldn't really use this variation for someone who can focus on zoning out their opponents.

Thats just my 2 cents but I haven't been able to try out this matchup.
Click to expand...
I was thinking about using Raiden but idk. Ik hes top tier and hes good but he cant really zone. What is your strategy to win games?
 
buyacushun

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
XxTheGoblinX said:
I was thinking about using Raiden but idk. Ik hes top tier and hes good but he cant really zone. What is your strategy to win games?
Click to expand...
Right now I'm trying to play a patient game and stick out a few select normals. Once I get some good counterpokes and condition my opponent to block strings, I'll stagger them and sometimes just cancel into a 2nd orb for the pressure. That's about where i'm at with how to play. I'm sure others in this thread can give you a full gameplan or something. I'm waiting on the PC patch.
 
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