Mortal Kombat (2011) Matchup Chart

[THTB]

Click Here for Matchup Chart​

As you may already know, a matchup chart is a compilation of matchup numbers based on the theoretical average of 2 players playing a specific character at their fullest potential, where a 5-5 matchup is considered "even". These charts are used to determine which characters are the best in the game matchup-wise. This thread is designated to discuss those numbers.

Character-Specific Matchup Threads
Baraka
Cyber Sub-Zero
Cyrax
Ermac
Freddy Krueger
Jade
Jax
Johnny Cage
Kabal
Kano
Kenshi
Kitana
Kung Lao
Liu Kang
Mileena
Nightwolf
Noob Saibot
Quan Chi
Raiden
Rain
Reptile
Scorpion
Sektor
Shang Tsung
Sheeva
Sindel
Skarlet
Smoke
Sonya Blade
Stryker
Sub-Zero​

 

[DrDogg]

I'm really, really hoping this isn't a match-up based game. It's what I dislike the most about SF games.

Are previous MK games based on match-ups?

 

[THTB]

I'm pretty sure all the 2D MKs were. MKDC certainly was, as was MKA.

 

[MKF30]

Is there a fighting game where match ups aren't considered? Nice chart btw

 

[THTB]

Tekken and I think Soul Calibur are more system-based. Matchups are a part, but not as much.

 

[DrDogg]

Is there a fighting game where match ups aren't considered? Nice chart btw

Pretty much every 3D fighter... Tekken, Soul Calibur and Virtua Fighter at the very least. I don't remember Killer Instinct being match-up based, but that was a long time ago so I could be remembering wrong. Smash Bros is not match-up based. I don't think MvC is match-up based. Not sure about KoF...

Come to think of it, the only games that I can think of that are match-up based are SF (and most Capcom fighters) and I guess MK now.

 

[MKF30]

I see, not including the 3D MK's because their match ups do matter(they were broken) which I'm sure you know.

What about DOA? Match up based or not really?

 

[DrDogg]

I see, not including the 3D MK's because their match ups do matter(they were broken) which I'm sure you know.

What about DOA? Match up based or not really?

DOA is not match-up based.

 

[Sequel]

Everyone in MK9 seems to have an anti-air move, a projectile, and do about the same amount of damage. That right there should eliminate most of the match-up dependent fights. I doubt you'll see any horrible match-ups like Sagat vs Gief in vanilla SF4. Where it was practically 9-1 in Sagat's favor.

 

[Krayzie]

Everyone in MK9 seems to have an anti-air move, a projectile, and do about the same amount of damage. That right there should eliminate most of the match-up dependent fights. I doubt you'll see any horrible match-ups like Sagat vs Gief in vanilla SF4. Where it was practically 9-1 in Sagat's favor.

I used Rose in Vanilla. Oh god no, don't even remind me... lol

 

[THTB]

Smash Bros is not match-up based.

Huh? Smash Bros is very match-up based...

And I wouldn't doubt that MK9 is match-up based.

 

[Rabid Justice]

The way the demo play it does feel matchup based. Each character has different strength and weaknesses. I like it as long as there are no horrible matchups.

 

[DrDogg]

Huh? Smash Bros is very match-up based...

And I wouldn't doubt that MK9 is match-up based.

Match-up charts are used in Smash, but they don't have a huge impact on the tier list. It's no where near as impactful as the match-up charts are in SF. You could completely remove the match-up chart from Smash and it wouldn't change the tier list much. I will say that it varies from game to game, and I was referring to Brawl and Smash 64 moreso than Melee.

 

[Circus]

I think that MK9 will have a pretty MatchUp Chart based tier list in the end. Characters like Sonya and Johnny that don't really have teleports and are based on close range pressure are going to have trouble vs people like Sub Zero(Ice clone... enough said) when it comes to approaching.

Jade has always had an ability where porjectiles don't effect her in one way or another. She'll probably be a hard time for someone that is projetile heavy like Sektor. If there are different playstyles, the tier list is always going to be effected a great amount on the matchup chart.

In SSBM the matchup up chart didn't play to heavily into the tier list because SSBM was surprisingly a very balanced game when it came to the majority of the characters. But that doesn't mean that almost that some characters had chaingrabs and specific tactics in certain matchups.

The best we could hope for is that the game is so balanced that the matchup chart isn't TOO big of a deal. But in my opinion because of the engine of the game it's pretty clear that the matchup chart will be important in a few months.

 

[DrDogg]

I don't think I agree with that logic.

In SF4, the characters who have a hard time with projectiles are at a disadvantage because almost every projectile in the game is safe on block. That doesn't seem to be the case with MK9. So all you'd need to do is get close... and that's how you'll need to inflict your damage with just about any character. Off the top of my head, only Sub-Zero, Scorpion, Cyrax, and maybe Ermac have the ability to inflict serious damage without getting close to you first.

 

[stickystaines]

It's funny because in games like Tekken, you need an absurd amount of match up knowledge to even be able to compete. Well, mostly that knowledge is knowing your frame data and what punishes what, but you still definitely need to know if you want an advantage. Whereas in SF4 you can probably run your standard game and still come out fairly well. You will still need that matchup knowledge though if you want to up your game.

Point being is that you can never really escape not knowing matchup knowledge in fighting games. It's on the same level as map knowledge in FPS games. Saying that, it seems many 2D fighting games seem to base tier lists around match ups, this will probably will not be much different. Only exceptions really are games like MvC where it's impossible to analyse every matchup, or Arcana Heart where the Arcana's will change the matchup anyway.

 

[Konqrr]

Every fighting game is matchup based. Anything other than a matchup based game would be MK4 without special moves which doesn't exist.

 

[DrDogg]

It's funny because in games like Tekken, you need an absurd amount of match up knowledge to even be able to compete. Well, mostly that knowledge is knowing your frame data and what punishes what, but you still definitely need to know if you want an advantage. Whereas in SF4 you can probably run your standard game and still come out fairly well. You will still need that matchup knowledge though if you want to up your game.

Point being is that you can never really escape not knowing matchup knowledge in fighting games. It's on the same level as map knowledge in FPS games. Saying that, it seems many 2D fighting games seem to base tier lists around match ups, this will probably will not be much different. Only exceptions really are games like MvC where it's impossible to analyse every matchup, or Arcana Heart where the Arcana's will change the matchup anyway.

I think that depends on your definition of a match-up based game. I understand what you're saying, but I have a different definition when I think of a game that's primarily based on match-ups.

In SF4 the way you play your character changes depending on your opponent. Ryu can't fight against Gief the same way he fights against Blanka. The match-ups go so far, that in some SF games, the character you pick is almost as important as your level of skill.

This is not the case when it comes to games like Tekken. At high levels, it's extremely beneficial to know your frame data and at least what's punishable for your opponent's character, but I can play Feng the same way no matter who my opponent is. It doesn't matter if it's Feng vs. Jin or Feng vs. Roger Jr, the way I play Feng doesn't really change.

I'm hoping MK9 fairs more like Tekken than SF when it comes to being a match-up based game.

 

[THTB]

Idk, I wouldn't want MK9 to be like that and I don't really forsee it. Part of the fun for me is being forced to come up with different gameplans to combat different characters.

 

[Konqrr]

This is not the case when it comes to games like Tekken. At high levels, it's extremely beneficial to know your frame data and at least what's punishable for your opponent's character, but I can play Feng the same way no matter who my opponent is. It doesn't matter if it's Feng vs. Jin or Feng vs. Roger Jr, the way I play Feng doesn't really change.

But even in Tekken, you have to know to expect from the character you are fighting against. What you can punish, if your juggle works on them, what they can punish you with.

No matter what, fighting games are matchup based. It is more difficult to make a matchup chart for games like mvc with different assists, but once the game is more fleshed out and the best stuff is known for each character, you can base the matchups off that. The bad or less useful assists are basically ignored in the making of the chart or when talking about matchups because nobody uses them.

 

[Sequel]

But even in Tekken, you have to know to expect from the character you are fighting against. What you can punish, if your juggle works on them, what they can punish you with.

That's universal for all fighting games. What DrDogg is saying is that the SF series takes match-ups to a whole new level. Not only do you need to know what your opponents character can do but you are forced into one particular style of play depending on the character you face.

Ryu vs Ken plays out very differently from a Ryu vs Zangief match. It's this kind of heavy match-up design that turns a lot of players off from the SF series.

 

[Konqrr]

That's universal for all fighting games. What DrDogg is saying is that the SF series takes match-ups to a whole new level. Not only do you need to know what your opponents character can do but you are forced into one particular style of play depending on the character you face.

Ryu vs Ken plays out very differently from a Ryu vs Zangief match. It's this kind of heavy match-up design that turns a lot of players off from the SF series.

This is true.

Like in vanilla sf4, when Ryu gets his super and throws fireballs, you can no longer jump at him unless you have some type of move that suspends you from falling if he does a super. Basically, once he gets super, you have to play him differently.

Honestly, I hope MK9 is like this. It adds unlimited variety to the game.

 

[DrDogg]

This is true.

Like in vanilla sf4, when Ryu gets his super and throws fireballs, you can no longer jump at him unless you have some type of move that suspends you from falling if he does a super. Basically, once he gets super, you have to play him differently.

Honestly, I hope MK9 is like this. It adds unlimited variety to the game.

I think it actually takes away from the variety in some ways. There are more than a few match-ups in SF in which the match has to be played a very specific way. There's no variety, if you want to have a good chance at winning, you have to follow strict rules of the match-up. I don't want that.

 

[Neclord]

I think that MK9 will have a pretty MatchUp Chart based tier list in the end. Characters like Sonya and Johnny that don't really have teleports and are based on close range pressure are going to have trouble vs people like Sub Zero(Ice clone... enough said) when it comes to approaching.

But don't forget Sonya has a dive kick. Characters with dive kick are always mid to high tier in nearly every game.
Also high and low projectile, fast kicks (long range leg grab?) and an additional "fly through the air" move:

Sonya Gameplay

Her projectiles are very fast too.

 

[Zerosoulreaver]

Holy crap, Sonya looks pretty beast in that vid. Her dive kick move has a nice arc to it, very cool.

Reptile is looking pretty good too but he looks very defensive, more so than in older MK games.