Midscreen: Staying in with Nw - Shoulder wiff pressure?

[jdhelvick]

Ok so I made a thread earlier about ending typical mid-screen bnb combos with f3 b4 resulting in less damage but keeps your opponent close to apply more pressure. This method works pretty decently but there's another one I've been playing with recently.

That would be the shoulder wiff. Sort of similar to smoke's teleport.

-The usual Nw bnb combo is (122 axe b2 axe 1 1 122 shoulder) for 38% damage

-The shoulder-wiff combo would look like this (122 axe b2 axe 1 1 12 - shoulder) resulting in 33% damage.

However the shoulder at the end of the combo will cause you pass under your opponent. After the shoulder wiffs your opponent will land next to you and be forced to stand up immediately causing less time to perform a wake-up attack.

Now why is this potentially a good thing?

-Although you give up around 5% damage from most no-meter combos. You are granted easy pressure. If your opponent rolls or stays still you can dash forward and land f3, standing 1, or throw.

-By utilizing f3 or standing 1 you can effectively stuff everything your opponent will do besides a wake-up attack.

-You recover fast enough from the shoulder to block any and all wake-ups.

-If your back is to the corner, this is a good way to switch positions in your favor.

-Possibly gives the opportunity for a free jump in. But jumping is generally not recommended.

I'm not sure how effective this can really be. Just thought I'd see what the other Nw players think.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I hate being to guy to shit on your tech cause the theory is good.

I just have a few minor suggestions that might make this better.

-the combo your talking about does 30% but you give up 8%
The combo I do is 122 axe b2 axe 1,1,122 shoulder and it does 41% I think 43 with a jip. I don't feel comfortable dropping 10%+ for "possible" pressure. But this is MU dependent.

If I am playing kabal, or kenshi or noob, I'll usually do 122 axe axe 4 shoulder across their body, then apply pressure

It comes down to positioning. I will use which ever combo gets them in the corner first. If we are mid screen and I have meter advantage I won't hesitate to to take 48% if I land I jip. I prefer to take max damage when possible then leave damage on the table...just my opinion.

 

[jdhelvick]

The combo you talk about is 38% or 41% on jip.

Yes this idea is definitely situational. and if we are talking about doing the maximum guaranteed damage possible this idea isn't so great.

But I have yet to see a Nw player who actually maximizes damage output like you say. Especially with "arrow traps" and make shift resets, all which leave just as much or even more damage on the table as this combo.

The point is to keep Nw in control as long as possible. I don't think this combo necessarily guarantees this. But it's just an idea.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I maximize damage output. Muuuaahaha. And 122 axe b2 axe 1,1,122 shoulder does a min of 40%. It's his most damaging BnB without meter.

 

[Death]

Wouldnt whiffing a shoulder be reallly risky???

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Against mileena I wouldn't do it. But no it's not punishable. It doesn't give you a huge advantage though

 

[jdhelvick]

(122 axe b2 axe 1 1 122 shoulder) does 38% damage..41% on jip

The shoulder wiff does 31% (122 axe axe 1 1 1 122-shoulder)

This combo is worth using against any character imo.

-Sure the advantage isn't overwhelming but with the properties of f3 (being able to stuff all normals/pokes including jumps if timed right). Your opponents only counter to the shoulder wiff combo is to wake-up attack or block.

-Wake-ups are harder to do because ending in 122 isn't a true knockdown and will cause your opponent stand up quicker meaning less time to perform a wake-up.

-The shoulder at the end of the combo will wiff under your opponent causing the inputs for a wake-up to have to be flipped around. Similar to smokes teleport wiff.

-On block you are getting MOST of the original sacrificed damage back (around 7%) off of chip damage (6%) at minimum, potentially more and building meter in the process.

This may not be the end all be all way to do Nw's mid-screen combos but its definitely an option to keep your opponents guessing and keep them from getting too comfortable. And that's all im trying to do, give Nw options.

I say test it out Nw players. It might surprise you with how often it can catch your opponent off guard.

 

[trustinme]

im all up for ideas and variety in nightwolfs gameplay and hell if it confuses my opponent even once and catches them off guard then im all for it! like lotf's arrow trap,in theory doesnt promise anything but just adds that guessing game of high risk high reward to his arsenal,good stuff guys! loving the hard work you guys put into nightwolf.

 

[jdhelvick]

Good to see someone using this tech in tournament finally! @STB Brainstorm

 

[trustinme]

wasnt ripcrowley doing it at toryuken aswell? ive been using it abit online,its alot of fun and ive caught alot of people off guard so far anyway.its ideal for me considering how many shoulder combo's i whiff,at least now i have a option of doing something else,lol.

 

[ripcrowley]

yes I did but I didnt have enough time to adjust to the offline. which resulted in me doing the F3 too early and not coming out and instead doing a 11. I did get lucky with that a couple of times but really brainstorm is the first to do it properly offline.