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Strategy Mid hitting quickfire with trait on and inconsistencies

Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
So for some random reason quickfire when trait is on hits mid on certain characters , i'll be posting a list soon of characters that can't duck it , most big characters can't duck it and some medium hitbox characters when ducking ( take Aquaman as example ) will crouch the first hit but get hit by the second bullet , there are spots where they can crouch both and the "breathing" animation can make the bullet whiff "randomly" even at those certain distances , MB quickfire from the 3rd bullet always connect on every character regardless of their crouching hitbox ( take batgirl as example of a low crouching hitbox character - she always evades the regual quickfire version ).

Seems like that when DS is in trait the bullets actually have their own hitbox and not a fixed "high" level.

Note that if a quickfire lands when trait is up another quickfire ( or MB quickfire ) is guaranteed from any distance they cannot jump out of it because they will get knocked out of the air from the quickfire creating distance and a knockdown , on big characters this can mean up to 48% damage with 3 MB quickfires.

Going to post a video showing it soon.

Honestly this should be fixed but it should come with a trait buff.

general m2dave
PND_Ketchup
jonnitti
Mikman360
J360
JokeStroke
GGA Slips
Vagrant
TONY-T
Duck Nation
Aris
Pakman
Srryimwhte
What's your opinion on this?
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
Quickfire fully connects on crouching:

Bane , Lex , Grundy , Doomsday

(4) Scorpion , Nightwing both stances , Martian Manhunter , Zod

Quickfire first bullet whiffs but 2nd hits:

(1) Joker , Lobo , Harley Quinn , Cyborg , Green Arrow , Hawkgirl , Shazam , Superman , WonderWoman , Green Lantern , Sinestro , Black Adam
(2) Raven , Aquaman


Quickfire whiffs:

Flash ( even MB QF whiffs at certain ranges ) , Batgirl ( even MB QF whiffs at certain ranges , Ares
(3) Batman , Catwoman , Killer Frost ( MB QF whiffs at certain ranges ).

(1) = 1st bullet can hit depending on crouching animation and distance
(2) = both bullets can whiff depending on crouching animation and distance
(3) = 2nd bullet can hit depending on crouching animation and distance
(4) = 1st bullet can whiff depending on crouching animation and distance
 
PND_Ketchup

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
I noticed this but just thought it was a thing due to how huge Bane is.

May have to rinse this for VF3 if I get the chance haha, good find! Need all the info I can get right now.
 
JokeStroke

JokeStroke

Mortal
i only thought the four bullets from mb hit the entire cast when ducking guess I was wrong...

i kept it to myself because i did not want it to get patched lol :(
 
Vagrant

Vagrant

Champion
Crathen First of all thank you for the tag and thanks for your quality write ups in the Kabal forum (been learning him and your chart helped out alot)

Trait making QF mid against certain chars is odd. And should be taken out. The unblockable should be high and the opponent should be allowed at least a guessing oppurtunity to avoid unblockable damage.
 
Duck Nation

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
Fucking strange. I suspect it's actually even possible to have quick fire hit on certain crouching characters without trait on, but it's not something I tried to reproduce because I was never sure it had actually happened, and only recalled it occurring one time - I think against a Bane.
 
Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
If you think about it, it actually makes some sense. It changes the hit properties of ALL gun moves respectively. There's no more "low" or "high" or "mid." It's all just "unblockable." There is no "unblockable high" or "unblockable low."

This game runs on a formula that makes you invincible to high attacks if you're ducking. Since the "high" factor is out of the equation, it all just boils down to the hitbox touching the opponent or not.

Fun fact, 231 (as in the last gunshot that normally hits high) hits crouching biggies too with the trait up.
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
If you want to set it up safely here's your to go combo : b1u2 f3 d2xx trait , this was brought up in an thread by Mikman360 so credits to him , what i've done is simply think that at the time DS d2 wasn't buffed , so i made 2+2.

This is safe from many wakeups in the game wheter they techroll or not ( some exeptions being Supermans super if he techrolls , Flash Lighting Charge + techroll , for example it's safe from KF slide and iceberg techroll or not , Sinestro Fear Blast techroll or not ) and there is the b1u2 d2 b3 trait variation being safe from any techroll wakeup ( even Lex corps charge ) so it can be used as a counterstrategy if they always techroll , or even the b1u2 d2 max height 32xxtrait ( wich in this case is safe from either techroll CC ( doesn't reach ) or CC without techroll.

Abuse this and make people cry for Deathstroke nerfs again.
 
Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Before we start "abusing" this however, we have to accept the possible countermaneuvers.

If you do get this running, the opponent still has wakeup options. Depending on who they are, they could blow up this strategy completely. Let's take Doomsday for example, a character who cannot crouch under QF at all. If he gets caught in this "trait trap," then after getting hit by one of the QFs, he can jump, get hit by the QF, and then get knocked down. Upon wakeup, he does a MB Supernova, and he's right in your face.

This can probably work with anyone with a teleport or major distance covering move. Flash, Batgirl, Scorps, Ares, etc.

Basically, get hit by first QF, jump and get hit by second QF, wakeup attack.
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
Mikman360 said:
Before we start "abusing" this however, we have to accept the possible countermaneuvers.

If you do get this running, the opponent still has wakeup options. Depending on who they are, they could blow up this strategy completely. Let's take Doomsday for example, a character who cannot crouch under QF at all. If he gets caught in this "trait trap," then after getting hit by one of the QFs, he can jump, get hit by the QF, and then get knocked down. Upon wakeup, he does a MB Supernova, and he's right in your face.

This can probably work with anyone with a teleport or major distance covering move. Flash, Batgirl, Scorps, Ares, etc.

Basically, get hit by first QF, jump and get hit by second QF, wakeup attack.
Click to expand...
Yes this isn't fullproof as people would try jumping to get a knockdown to not get struck by quickfires and MB quickfires , this sets up meaty MG on meaty MB Quickfire as they're amongst the best specials to stuff not fully invincible wakeups , in the doomsday case Nova and MB Nova aren't fully invincible and can be stuffed before he jumps up ( same for Batgirl wakeup SmokeBomb ) , same for EX venom , Up Venom has the most invincible frames and can evade some meaty guns but the recovery is so horrible that he's going to get punished anyways.
You're right tho , that's the last piece of the puzzle and just needs some Lab time.
 
Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
I would suggest we wait until Zatanna drops before we bust our brains on this. I feel like this is something that'll disappear as quickly as comboing off of the Solitude Ship did.

(Dangit Crathen, you shoulda kept your mouth shut until Tuesday!)
 
Crathen

Crathen

Death is my business
This is only the beginning


AK Pig Of The Hut


#Kappa

Going to post more when i finish tested them on different characters , for example the b1u2 f3 d2xxtrait setup gets punished by Green Lantern techroll into Lanterns Might so you have to switch to b1u2 d2 32xxtrait setup wich is also safe from techroll into Oa Rocket
 
Duck Nation

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
That said, I'm not sure the stuff in the video is terribly worthwhile. 36% using trait, getting debuffed afterwards and spending a bar - seems like its best possible use is as an anti-clash measure, though even that's touchy.
 
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