Making v2 and v3 viable

[Szkarad]

Here are some of my ideas. I wonder what you guys think.

v2:
So I really think v2 is kinda viable, but still, it is worse than v1 by a mile.

First off I think B2U4 should connect with the slide. It's a safe mid and I think it's really underrated - in other variations it connects beautifully with the acid and gives you the time to go into scud shot. But in V2 you can't really do anything with it, save for shooting them once or twice with the rifle. And it has a flawless gap it shouldn't really have.

There should be a combo that gives you plus frames after cancelling the slide. Right now if you try to apply pressure after cancelling slides after you block you will get beaten out, as it is minus on pretty much anything.

TNT stick should be faster, or with a different input so V2 still could have the acid puddle.

Command grab should tick off of more combos or tick off F3 whether it lands or not, like the Terminator (right now it will connect only after a block)

v3:

First off, his BF1 shouldn't waste a bullet! It's retarded that it does it! I know it makes realistic sense, but does it make any sense gameplay-wise? Is there any other combo finisher in the game that actively put you in a disadvantage?

Secondly, his trap should be fast, like 20f and he should be able to kick it if he inputs BF4 again near, like Sub-zero could with his ice clone in MKX. If it was like that I wouldn't even mind if it took the place of the slide

What are your thoughts guys?

 

[Evantabes]

I actually think that V2 is his best (and most interesting) variation and Erron players should play it going forward. V1 still has utility against projectile spam characters because Scud is still good but other than that, it's pretty underwhelming now because it's just so honest. It's not 2019 so people aren't getting full screen 50/50ed by slide/dropkick anymore. Add in the Scud nerf and V1 doesn't really have good mix ups or ways to enforce offense when he touches you. The best thing about V1 right now is that he gets more damage per touch because he can get meaningful conversions with enhanced LnL, but what's the point when he doesn't have cheap ways to open you up? V1 kinda just has to play neutral all day and hope the opponent runs into a b2 and doesn't have breakaway. Even in the matchups I think V1 is the best in, the good projectile spam characters have counterplay to Scud so it's not like you can just mindlessly sit in Scud all day.

V2 is significantly worse at controlling the screen because of lack of Scud/Puddle but has legitimately scary offense in a game where that's relatively scare. What's interesting is that it's not because of a broken stagger/counterhit kb like top tier characters. V2 is kinda made up of a bunch of gimmicks that are below average on paper but when put together, create some crazy mix ups. Every gimmick has a clear answer, but every answer is different and there's not really a way to play around every option he has because he legitimately has like 20 of them. The worst thing about this variation is losing enhanced LnL, as you don't get good damage off b222 or 21212. In a weird way though, this plays into this variations gameplan because breakaway means nothing to him since he doesn't launch you. So while he loses out on some damage per touch, his probability of getting a hit is much higher because he just knocks you down and puts you in the blender.

To your point about your changes, I don't know how they buff him without making him braindead and less interesting. To be honest, I never use b2u4 (what I assume you meant). I guess it's safe (I think??) but largely just outclassed by b222. Also you can already combo with it by doing b2u4 xx slide cancel into whatever. String definitely shouldn't have a gap though you're right about that. For some slide cancel being plus, they probably wouldn't make anything more than like +2. That's enough to create a "d1 or not" mindgame which is nice I guess, but not really necessary imo considering it wouldn't significantly alter his gameplan. It would just be another option. I really don't know if they should buff dynamite. It has niche uses but is borderline unusable right now, though this might be necessary for the sake of balance. If he had what's essentially a Cyrax bomb, he would be able to get knockdowns like nothing and when he gets a knockdown, he can just melt you. Obviously I want to see this buff because I'm selfish, but it would be interesting to see how it plays out if they buff it. I feel like they have to be really careful with it but this is just theorycraft. They definitely won't make F3 xx command grab connect on hit considering they ended up taking that away from him in MKX. Also it just takes a lot of thought out of the mix up so I'm against this suggestion. But imagine if he could tick off b2 or b22? Damn I'm kinda frothing at the mouth. He'd be a legit menace. Not saying he needs it but also not not saying that.

As for V3, barring drastic changes, it's unplayable. It's just his base kit with two garbage moves and no way to use b222 safely. I don't really mind bf1 using a bullet. I actually use the Lnl 0 bullet kb a lot and shooting 8 bullets a game isn't always optimal, so this is another way to spend them. Only thing that sucks to me is that you can't get the Acid Pour kb if you have no bullets. The trap being like Ice Clone is a cool idea, but this move is a bunch of changes away from being any kind of decent. Only use this variation if you want to do the cool brutals.

 

[Szkarad]

Hi, thank you for the reply

I actually think that V2 is his best (and most interesting) variation and Erron players should play it going forward.

I used to think that too and play a lot of barking irons. The damage isn't that bad - 26% for a bar isn't too shabby

It's not 2019 so people aren't getting full screen 50/50ed by slide/dropkick anymore.

They do sometimes. Thing is you risk loosing 30+% if you misread and go for the slide. But IMO going for boot/slide is a nice strategy, just the good players will know how to deal with it if you try to do it the entire round (delay wakeup/wakeup U3/neutral jump)

V2 is significantly worse at controlling the screen because of lack of Scud/Puddle

That is enough to make V2 not worth it in my opinion. Everything else about this variation is okay, but the fact that you loose the puddle which is one of the best tools in the game is just too much for me. Seriously, if NRS removed the TNT from V2 it would be on par with V1.

. V2 is kinda made up of a bunch of gimmicks that are below average on paper but when put together, create some crazy mix ups.

I don't know man. Right, it's great in going through block but the slide cancel leaves you at minus frames and good players know it and willl punish you for trying to apply pressure after it.

as you don't get good damage off b222 or 21212.

Yeah. B222 is fine as you can grab them but max you can get out of 2121212, arguably his best string is 19%. Actually you get more damage out of 111 DBF1 amp.

I never use b2u4 (what I assume you meant). I guess it's safe (I think??) but largely just outclassed by b222.

It's not bad. Safe, (-4) people don't really know how to flawless it and you can cancel it into puddle and have time to get into scud or even rifle. And you can combo after it for a defensive bar in V2, but the timing is so strict I honestly doubt you can do it consistently in online.

I really don't know if they should buff dynamite. It has niche uses but is borderline unusable right now, though this might be necessary for the sake of balance.

That's the thing. And it takes the spot of Erron's best tool. Only way to set it up reliably is after B2U4 if you amp it in the corner.