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General/Other Major Gripes with Skarlet

RamenO

It Stinks!
The more I play Skarlet, the more I realize that probably of all the DLC she is probably the worst. She's not bad, but she has real issues not only with matchups but with technical issues as well. For example, she lacks a true wake up attack, her best option being EN Red Dash, but only because it has armor not invincibility.

Her teleport(Blood Drop) doesn't track like it should, and you can in fact avoid it completely if you do something as simple as walk forward a bit before it hits for a free punish. What I find the most odd about it is that not only can it not even be used to punish some of the faster recovering projectiles due to how slow it is, but it also misses on opponents sometimes because the hittable box isn't large enough. I've had it whiff on an Ermac doing a Forceball because it leans him forward, so I whiff it completely. Odd that I'll get punished for trying to use it as a counter zoning tool only to have it undershoot at times.

All of her 50/50 options are unsafe, so if you guess wrong, you eat punishment, hard. According to XXZ's post the only thing really safe is Red Dash, but even that is -1 on block, so you will eat a D1 if done outside of anything but her 112 reset.

She lacks a low launcher attack, so most if not all of her attacks are easily circumvented by simply blocking high. The only thing you have to worry about in terms of lows is the Red Dash into Slide or a simple sweep. I guess you could do B1, 1 , B4 but that just knocks them down at your feet for little damage. In some matchups this is not what you want. She's like the opposite of Stryker in this regard. You can crouch block Stryker all day and not have a worry in the world(aside from his telegraphed B3, 2), and the same seems to be true for Skarlet once you realize her options on her strings.

Her Dagger Toss(kunai essentially) projectile is great for building meter, but as an actual zoning tool, it's fairly mediocre if it hits. Little to worry about considering it's not even a true combo so you can always get hit by the first kunai, and block the second for a measly 4% damage total(3% if the first hits, 1% on chip for the second). As she's mostly supposed to be played as a zoner from what I gather, this is pretty weak. Since the kunai aren't true combos either this makes trades never in her favor. A Baraka could take the trade all day because the first kunai would knock him out of recovery allowing him to block the second. I really wish it was a true combo if you didn't delay the second, because even the EN seems to be a waste; it maxes out at 7% if the math in training is correct(5%, though the combo counter says 6%, and the second does 2%, so maybe 8% total?). To be quite honest, I feel she will lose to even the hybrid zoner type characters such as Liu Kang given these faults.

Her air projectile is also nothing to write home about, considering that only does 4% damage if it hits, and following after is hugely damage scaled(if you're even able to considering you have to be close)...though at least the EN air Dagger Toss is a very useful tool as it's almost impossible to avoid sans a perfectly timed teleport. Still, it feels like a case of anything she can do in terms of zoning, others such as Kitana can do better.

Many people will undoubtedly overlook these faults and point out the pushback on her kunai, the ability to follow a Red Slide into a Down/Upslash, etc. but a good majority of the things making Skarlet appear so fearsome and good are things getting fixed(the bugs) or things getting tweaked/nerfed. I also attribute the Skarlet hype in terms of her overall game being so "good" is lack of matchup knowledge versus her. The first kunai has almost no block stun, so if you try a 50/50 with a dash cancel after they block it, you can easily be uppercutted.

I'm not saying she won't win any majors or she's trash or anything, but I think a lot of people are overestimating how good she is, especially with that new tier chart by Brady(which doesn't factor in the nerfs/fixes coming). I still like her given these negatives and will continue to play her, but I really am curious if I'm alone in this assessment or if I'm missing something.
 

Past

Noob
I know its a little hard to believe, but I feel that in this game, you have more defensive options when you are laying down on all fours as opposed to standing up. That is why her 50/50 sucks. If you block high, you have a chance to reassess the situation while you are on the floor from the slide. Honestly, I wish that they would leave the slide/upslash and just increase its scaling like subzero's ice ball. I've said this before scarlet may end up being a one trick pony (mid range zoning) after the patch and we know what happens to characters like that (see Sindel, Striker, Noob).
 

Somberness

Lights
A lot of characters have bad wakeups if you think just having that is bad. Scorpion? Nothing. Liu Kang? Kung Lao? An armored teleport but you can jump away. Spin is good but of course it is not safe. Wakeups are only really necessary for escaping pressure (especially in the corner) and dash is good at that.

Use instant air teleport to make it faster. The regular teleport should be used sparingly anyway, enhanced dash is her best counter zoning tool. The enhanced teleport gets an untechable knockdown for some pressure but I would save meter for the enhanced dash.

You've just got to know when to use what and take some risks. Far range upslash is pretty safe against certain characters. If everything was safe, it'd be stupid.. Take the d1, you just dealt 2% as well and got more meter than they did.

I mentioned in another thread that there is actually no reason to not be blocking low against her. If they are blocking high, they are vulnerable to 1,2, and f2. These attacks all start good block strings/pressure. In this case of f2, thanks for giving me almost a full bar of meter for one string!

If you want to zone with her, you're going to have to use the cancels. You have to able to do it fast enough so a trade isn't even possible. You mentioned Stryker? He wouldn't even be able to do anything but enhanced roll to stop you, and that might not even work.

Many characters can do nothing in the air so I don't know how this can be a bad thing. Her horizontal one is not great because of how high it is but the downward one can be useful to stop anti-air attempts.

Two words. Tom Brady.

Love ya tommy
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
- Skarlet's wake up game is solid for a zoning character. You can use the slide which, admittedly, has few invincibility frames or the enhanced red dash which has super armor.

- Skarlet's teleport is fine albeit it does have a small hitbox. It still hits a crouching opponent unlike other teleports. Like XXZ said, perform an instant aerial teleport which starts up faster.

- 50/50 mix ups are not a big aspect of this game. Very few characters have 50/50 mix ups that are not fuzzy-guardable. The game revolves more around quick pokes that do good chip damage and that can be hit confirmed into combos.

- Because a dagger only does 3% of damage and because the cancel does not allow you to block immediately, zoning requires a lot of work with Skarlet. You have to know how to avoid projectiles and teleports on reaction without blocking. It can be done, but it requires skill, work, patience, and experience.

- Skarlet is not as good as Kung Lao, Kabal, Raiden, Reptile, and Cyrax, but she is still a tournament viable character in my opinion. She may be mid tier after the patch, though. NRS is toning down her best tool.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I don't even think Skarlet beats many characters that bad...at least anymore. But I think I'd need to play more Skarlet players to figure stuff out.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
THTB said:
I don't even think Skarlet beats many characters that bad...at least anymore. But I think I'd need to play more Skarlet players to figure stuff out.
The next Console Combat is on the 18th of this month, I believe. My cousin and I will try to make it out again, so we can test the match up some more. I just hope the damn patch comes out already, so I can concentrate on the "final" version of my characters. I have been wasting too much of my time using Freddy whom every tournament bans these days. LOL.
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
The next Console Combat is on the 18th of this month, I believe. My cousin and I will try to make it out again, so we can test the match up some more. I just hope the damn patch comes out already, so I can concentrate on the "final" version of my characters. I have been wasting too much of my time using Freddy whom every tournament bans these days. LOL.
Let me know when you will be going to any CC get togethers. I need to make sure people know you'll be there. I had no idea you were gonna be there yesterday, and i would have made sure our advertising of the stream would of had your name on it too :)
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Tim Static said:
Let me know when you will be going to any CC get togethers. I need to make sure people know you'll be there. I had no idea you were gonna be there yesterday, and i would have made sure our advertising of the stream would of had your name on it too :)
I will let you know. Thank you.

I am not sure how or when P2W archives the Console Combat stream, but see if you can put the grand finals between THTB and Master D., my cousin, on the front page sometimes. The level of play between both players was unusually high and intense for a local battle, and THTB really proves why he is arguably the best Reptile player in the country.
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
I will let you know. Thank you.

I am not sure how or when P2W archives the Console Combat stream, but see if you can put the grand finals between THTB and Master D., my cousin, on the front page sometimes. The level of play between both players was unusually high and intense for a local battle, and THTB really proves why he is arguably the best Reptile player in the country.
yea im about to post something very soon :)
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
I'm not saying she won't win any majors or she's trash or anything, but I think a lot of people are overestimating how good she is, especially with that new tier chart by Brady(which doesn't factor in the nerfs/fixes coming). I still like her given these negatives and will continue to play her, but I really am curious if I'm alone in this assessment or if I'm missing something.
I'm not sure of your point. You go on at length about her weaknesses, then go on to say she's not trash, and you believe she can win major tournaments. You think "a lot of people" are overestimating how good she is? Do you mean you overestimated how good she is? :p

Last I knew, Tom Brady's newest Tier Chart does take into account the latest patch notes he's received from NRS, and Skarlet is in 2nd best tier.

I think Skarlet is one of the best characters in the game, based on the nuances of her specials and how they can be used for antiair and anti-getup purposes.

Sidenote: we don't know the exact patch notes yet, so there's no point assuming Skarlet's "best moves" will be taken out. Rumors do not equal fact.
 

RamenO

It Stinks!
I'm not sure of your point. You go on at length about her weaknesses, then go on to say she's not trash, and you believe she can win major tournaments. You think "a lot of people" are overestimating how good she is? Do you mean you overestimated how good she is? :p

Last I knew, Tom Brady's newest Tier Chart does take into account the latest patch notes he's received from NRS, and Skarlet is in 2nd best tier.

I think Skarlet is one of the best characters in the game, based on the nuances of her specials and how they can be used for antiair and anti-getup purposes.
Well, you kind of proved my point there...I kept reading around this forum about how "godlike" she is, her kunai cancels are, etc. etc.(even you went on to say she's one of the best characters in the game), but I really don't feel that is true. That's exactly what I'm talking about; she's seen as way better than she actually is/will be. Regardless, my point with this thread wasn't to point out she's trash, like I said, more of she's fairly overrated given the community outlook on her: she's good, but not that good. I especially read about how insane her zoning was, and I find it to be fairly average if you consider the upcoming nerfs as well. I can't really think of any other zoner she outperforms.

Also, XXZ, I realize not having a wake up isn't equated to being bad, it's just one of the things I listed. I would hardly call Kung Lao spin a bad wake up just because it can be punished, though. Tell me how many times you've questioned if you should pressure Lao on wake up in fear of that spin exactly. Wake up attacks aren't necessary every time, but they do open up options. I'm also not sure what the significance of 1, 2 is? That's not even a valid string if I recall correctly. Her kunai cancel is also susceptible to the same limitations as Jax's Ground Pound and Stryker's Gunshot cancel: you cannot block until you reach a full stop after a dash. I'm unsure what you mean by you have to do it fast enough? Can you clarify? And is IA Blood Drop really faster? Does anyone have a measurement/frame data? It doesn't feel like it is by that much if at all.

Not that I disagree with what anyone said, in fact I agree completely with m2dave's post, especially on pokes. Her F4, 3 string is one of the things that makes her good imo.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Well, you kind of proved my point there...I kept reading around this forum about how "godlike" she is, her kunai cancels are, etc. etc.(even you went on to say she's one of the best characters in the game), but I really don't feel that is true. That's exactly what I'm talking about; she's seen as way better than she actually is/will be. Regardless, my point with this thread wasn't to point out she's trash, like I said, more of she's fairly overrated given the community outlook on her: she's good, but not that good. I especially read about how insane her zoning was, and I find it to be fairly average if you consider the upcoming nerfs as well. I can't really think of any other zoner she outperforms.

Also, XXZ, I realize not having a wake up isn't equated to being bad, it's just one of the things I listed. I would hardly call Kung Lao spin a bad wake up just because it can be punished, though. Tell me how many times you've questioned if you should pressure Lao on wake up in fear of that spin exactly. Wake up attacks aren't necessary every time, but they do open up options. I'm also not sure what the significance of 1, 2 is? That's not even a valid string if I recall correctly. Her kunai cancel is also susceptible to the same limitations as Jax's Ground Pound and Stryker's Gunshot cancel: you cannot block until you reach a full stop after a dash. I'm unsure what you mean by you have to do it fast enough? Can you clarify? And is IA Blood Drop really faster? Does anyone have a measurement/frame data? It doesn't feel like it is by that much if at all.

Not that I disagree with what anyone said, in fact I agree completely with m2dave's post, especially on pokes. Her F4, 3 string is one of the things that makes her good imo.
I could be wrong, but in my opinion you're making your judgment based on what you believe her nerfs will be, not what she is right now. What it comes down to is opinion. I respect your opinion that Skarlet is not as good as "they say she is". I respectfully disagree. My opinion is based on my ~780/130 ratio with Skarlet in online single ranked matches, with many of those "losses" counting from netcode disconnects.

Skarlet fits my play-style to a T and I have fun playing her, so take that into account with my opinion as well. You'll never dissuade me from playing Skarlet. Once the patch comes out and she's changed, I'll master her in her new form and make 'post-patch' Skarlet videos to show her off. :)
 

RamenO

It Stinks!
Oh, no, don't get it twisted, I never intended to dissuade anyone from playing Skarlet. Infact I'm thinking of making her my new main, and switching my current one to my alt(Stryker), as she really is a blast to play. I just wanted to gauge the opinion on her now compared to the insane amount of hype when she was first released and see if how many agreed/disagreed with my assessment to see if maybe it's just me and I'm doing something wrong.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Oh, no, don't get it twisted, I never intended to dissuade anyone from playing Skarlet. Infact I'm thinking of making her my new main, and switching my current one to my alt(Stryker), as she really is a blast to play. I just wanted to gauge the opinion on her now compared to the insane amount of hype when she was first released and see if how many agreed/disagreed with my assessment to see if maybe it's just me and I'm doing something wrong.
Understood, sorry I misinterpreted what you said.

In my opinion, if Skarlet isn't blowing your mind with how definitively she can dominate your opponent, you're doing something wrong. If I can set it up, I'll start recording my ranked matches and maybe get some of the guys who can go toe to toe with me and record those as well for some analyzing.
 

RamenO

It Stinks!
Ok, new gripe with Skarlet. Not only is she difficult to play online due to timing issues, but I can't even play with her half the time because my opponent didn't download the compatibility pack. Trying to level up with this character is frustrating when I can't even play her on the only reliable medium vs. people.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Ok, new gripe with Skarlet. Not only is she difficult to play online due to timing issues, but I can't even play with her half the time because my opponent didn't download the compatibility pack. Trying to level up with this character is frustrating when I can't even play her on the only reliable medium vs. people.
If you're having trouble playing Skarlet online, then you're having trouble playing every character online. I'd say the real issue for you here is your ability (or lack thereof) to cope with the input delaying that's required to play online effectively. Every match's lag will be different, therefore you need to be able to adjust to it quickly.

Yes, not everyone has the compatibility pack. If this happens to you often, I'm not sure what to say - I rarely come into contact with someone who doesn't have the packs/DLC downloaded.
 

Drayn0

Noob
If you're having trouble playing Skarlet online, then you're having trouble playing every character online. I'd say the real issue for you here is your ability (or lack thereof) to cope with the input delaying that's required to play online effectively. Every match's lag will be different, therefore you need to be able to adjust to it quickly.

Yes, not everyone has the compatibility pack. If this happens to you often, I'm not sure what to say - I rarely come into contact with someone who doesn't have the packs/DLC downloaded.
Its pretty common to run into people that have the other dlc characters but not skarlet. She's just not very popular.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Its pretty common to run into people that have the other dlc characters but not skarlet. She's just not very popular.
I have noticed when I decide to dick around in random rooms (player created rooms) that a fair amount of people don't have the DLC, and also in low-end player matches/tag matches....but in the higher tier of single ranked, it's uncommon for me to fight someone who doesn't have all of the DLC characters available. Just clarifying my experience.
 

Creepy00

Noob
If you're having trouble playing Skarlet online, then you're having trouble playing every character online. I'd say the real issue for you here is your ability (or lack thereof) to cope with the input delaying that's required to play online effectively. Every match's lag will be different, therefore you need to be able to adjust to it quickly.

Yes, not everyone has the compatibility pack. If this happens to you often, I'm not sure what to say - I rarely come into contact with someone who doesn't have the packs/DLC downloaded.
^This. You know there are characters that do struggle online with a little be of lag right? :D
Scarlet is one of them, but looks like you figured out a way around it.
 

RamenO

It Stinks!
Ninj took that completely out of context. Drayn0 reinforced what I said/mainly meant. I don't do ranked matches too much. I prefer Player matches and Rooms because of the ability to play the same opponent multiple times. It allows them to adapt, and if they have a good connection, it's good for timing consistency.

Regardless, I played like 20 or more games and more than half of them didn't have the Skarlet compatibility pack. Funny thing was that some had Rain and Kenshi, but not Skarlet. I don't understand and hope in the future that these compatibility packs are enforced through the next patch similar to Freddy.
 

Drayn0

Noob
I honestly don't believe that Skarlet is a true zoning character. I think that she plays best at mid-screen where she can make use of all her tools. Her normals are average speed but most are not unsafe, you could also cancel her normals into EN Dagger for frame advantage. Just make sure they block high or use her overhead string.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Ninj took that completely out of context. Drayn0 reinforced what I said/mainly meant. I don't do ranked matches too much. I prefer Player matches and Rooms because of the ability to play the same opponent multiple times. It allows them to adapt, and if they have a good connection, it's good for timing consistency.

Regardless, I played like 20 or more games and more than half of them didn't have the Skarlet compatibility pack. Funny thing was that some had Rain and Kenshi, but not Skarlet. I don't understand and hope in the future that these compatibility packs are enforced through the next patch similar to Freddy.
I think you answered any questions here. You play Player matches and Rooms - this is generally where the people who play very casually or just picked up the game go to play, so you're going to run into people who don't want the DLC or don't know about the compatibility packs go.

I agree with you in that I like when people can adapt, and that's the only true way to find out who's the better player. But in high level ranked, you get matched up more often against similarly skilled opponents, and can play them multiple times, make friends with them and play privately, etc. That's what I did, works great.

I hope they make it mandatory as well. It's idiotic that it isn't mandatory.
 

Alex_Smith

The artist formerly known as blueNINE.
I'd like to see the first dagger do 1% chip, and for the two daggers to combo together when thrown at once.