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Strategy Lex Luthor: Frame Traps and Pressure Strings

Thead

Mortal
Posted this in the general discussion, but so it's easier to find I made a new thread. If you discover or know of any Frame Traps with Lex post them and I'll edit original post.

D1:-

D1 hits Mid with a 7 Frame startup.

On hit you're at +11 Frames, enough advantage to throw out Lexs 22D1 Frame Trap, his B13 Low attack, his F2 Overhead attack or Throw.

22D1 is safe at +2 Frames on block. More details on 22D1 in the next section.

B13 is safe at -4 Frames on block, and can be hit-confirmed into Gravity Pull MB for full combo.

F2 is not safe at -8 Frames on block, and cannot be hit-confirmed into Gravity Pull MB. If F2 by itself connects, you have enough time to safely lay out a Mine, Orb, or use your Trait~dash.
Please note some characters can wake-up attack your Trait after F2, but they will be full combo punished as long as you forward dash out of your Trait as fast as possible. (Protip: Trait can be charged to Level 3 while you're dashing out of its animation, as long as you keep the Trait button pressed).

Once the opponent respects your options after a D1 hits, you can mix in his slightly slower strings such as his B2U1 Overhead.

B2U3 is an 18 Frame startup (7 Frames after D1 hits), and safe on block at -3 Frames. You can hit-confirm B2U3 into [B2U3]D3 for 16% damage.

22D1:-

22D1 hits Mid Mid Overhead with a 13 Frame startup.

On hit you're at enough advantage to Mine/Orb, or hit them with a follow up Corpse Charge for 19% combo damage (although this allows you no setups). In the corner you can follow up F2~Gravity Pull MB to extend the combo.

22D1 on block has +2 Frames, enough frame advantage to allow Lex a standing 1 or D1. I recommend D1 because A) It's slightly faster B) Standing 1 can be ducked.


Opponents can escape the frame trap with a backdash, which is punishable with Corpse Charge.

If the follow up D1 hits after 22D1 is blocked, they are pushed back too far for Lexs B1 low to hit, unless they tried to counter 22D1 with an advancing move. You can still however connect with his F2 overhead, or another 22D1 to loop the frame advantage.

22D1 hits EVERY character if they are crouch blocking, except Grundy, where 2[2]D3 will whiff against his crouch.

22D1 has to be performed fairly close for the frame trap to work, this makes Ji2, 22 a great jump in attack:-
Ji2, 22 can be easily hit-confirmed into Gravity Pull MB, or on block confirmed into D1 for the frame advantage.


Once the opponent respects your option of D1 - you can mix up into his slightly slower moves, such as B1 - Low, B2 - Overhead, F2 - Overhead or Throw.
Please note you have to take a miniscule step forward in order for the B1 or Throw to connect. (It's miniscule enough that you can't even notice Lex advance - be quick on your inputs.)


22B3 is Mid Mid Low and is safe on block.

B1:-

B1 hits Low with a 14 Frame startup.

On block you're at +6 Frames, enough advantage to gain a free Throw. This makes B1 a useful setup for tic throws.


On hit B1 is -1 Frames, you don't technically have enough advantage to free throw, however a throw will still grab on them on hit if they haven't read you won't finished the B13 string.

B13 is +10 Frames on hit, but you're at such a distance from your opponent you can't capitilize on it. (Example: You tried B13 to hit-confirm, opponent blocks B1 then eats the 3 expecting a Throw)

B13 is completely safe on block.

As with most Frame Traps the opponent can avoid this by back dashing after B1 is blocked, although its a risk as you could again finish the string.
 

Wemfs

The only morality in a cruel world is chance.
I thought B12 is -4 on block and F2 -8 on block. So safe meaning the opponent can only do a block string or throw?

If you commit to the trait dash cancel after F2 you are able to block all wake-ups in the game, but like you said if you see it connect and then afterwards decide to trait dash up then yes some wake-ups can catch ya.

I'm definitely going to be using 22D1 more. That's weird that the 2(2) only whiffs on Grundy, but connects on low hitbox characters like Catwoman.
 

Thead

Mortal
Wemfs

You're completely correct. I meant hit and not block. Edited original post, thanks. :)

Is there any reason to commit to Trait after F2? Are you not punishable in time if F2 is blocked?
 

Wemfs

The only morality in a cruel world is chance.
Wemfs

You're completely correct. I meant hit and not block. Edited original post, thanks. :)

Is there any reason to commit to Trait after F2? Are you not punishable in time?
I only commit to the F2 trait cancel if I make a read on them blocking low. The main reason I do it is to be all up in their face with lvl3 armor as they're still recovering from the ground, especially if they are close to the corner. Puts them in a dire situation.

I'm sure if I made the wrong read and they blocked my F2, they'd be able to poke me out or something before i canceled into trait. Not sure tho.
 

Malec

Apprentice
got a question to you guys about his ji2, the frame data on ji2 says its something like +20 or +30 (dont remember), is it realy that much advantage on block? at the moment in the online matches, i use ji3 most of the time, but its negative on block, so ji2 could be an good option for pressure, if it gives that much advantage
 

Wemfs

The only morality in a cruel world is chance.
got a question to you guys about his ji2, the frame data on ji2 says its something like +20 or +30 (dont remember), is it realy that much advantage on block? at the moment in the online matches, i use ji3 most of the time, but its negative on block, so ji2 could be an good option for pressure, if it gives that much advantage
Ji2 is definitely something you want to incorporate in to your game. The way to set it up is by conditioning your opponent to ji3. Ji2 being +31 on block gives you more options for pressure, but it's hard to land on certain characters with good AA's, e.g., green lantern =/
 

Thead

Mortal
got a question to you guys about his ji2, the frame data on ji2 says its something like +20 or +30 (dont remember), is it realy that much advantage on block? at the moment in the online matches, i use ji3 most of the time, but its negative on block, so ji2 could be an good option for pressure, if it gives that much advantage
Frame Data for jump in attacks can be a little iffy, it all depends on the height in which the jump attack hits.

You can test in 'Practice Mode'. Choose Lex Luthor as your opponent, then in AI Options in the pause menu set Reversal Attack to Corpse Charge. This will make the computer block your attack, then retaliate with Corpse Charge (6 Frame Special, afaik no attacks are faster than 6f) as soon as its able to. This will show you if something can be punished.

Ji3 is actually safe as long as you don't swing the axe the moment you leave the ground.


I thought B12 is -4 on block and F2 -8 on block. So safe meaning the opponent can only do a block string or throw?
Sorry forgot to respond to this.

-8 is not safe, many characters have a 6f or 7f D1, which can then be cancelled into a Special Move. Some Special Moves, as you know, can be combo'd after.

Also if committing to F2~Trait, why not go the whole hog and commit to F2~Gravity Pull MB instead. You'll get punished either way if they guessed right, but on hit you'll get a combo which can be ended in a Trait Dash still.
 

Wemfs

The only morality in a cruel world is chance.
Cause I like the chance of being in their face with lvl 3 armor on with the pressure. The chance of hitting them with a combo and setting them up with mines while you still have lvl 3 armor on throughout the whole combo.

That's just me though.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
Really good writeup, this should help any Lex Luthor that's having issues with pressure up close.

Good stuff mate!

I love B2,U3. It's a great way to keep the opponent in check, whilst making them respect your 50/50's without having to commit to unsafe strings/specials to establish the threat.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
got a question to you guys about his ji2, the frame data on ji2 says its something like +20 or +30 (dont remember), is it realy that much advantage on block? at the moment in the online matches, i use ji3 most of the time, but its negative on block, so ji2 could be an good option for pressure, if it gives that much advantage
I HIGHLY doubt its correct

bane JI frame data is also wrong and I assume much of the JI attacks on block are not correct or are calculated weird

Thead - Excellent write up man. Can you explain the different uses of f2 and b2? I love lex and I completely believe in lex. Im not sure he's for me or im for him but this makes me want to explore him more. Great stuff

Have you guys explored cancel advantage on his strings yet to get his orbs and mines and everything out faster within pressure? I think this would greatly help cause as you know he's hella plus

For example i wonder if theres a way to do a string to orb (db3 i think) into pressure into unblockable missles and they are forced to block it because of the orb.
 

Malec

Apprentice
I HIGHLY doubt its correct

bane JI frame data is also wrong and I assume much of the JI attacks on block are not correct or are calculated weird

Thead - Excellent write up man. Can you explain the different uses of f2 and b2? I love lex and I completely believe in lex. Im not sure he's for me or im for him but this makes me want to explore him more. Great stuff

Have you guys explored cancel advantage on his strings yet to get his orbs and mines and everything out faster within pressure? I think this would greatly help cause as you know he's hella plus

For example i wonder if theres a way to do a string to orb (db3 i think) into pressure into unblockable missles and they are forced to block it because of the orb.
f2 is -8 on block, so its unsafe and you cant hitconfirm into gravity pull, you have to commit to it and its risky.
b2,u3 is safe on block and you can hitconfirm to b2,u3,d3, its not a full combo, but you can check your opponent with that overhead, if you want to play it safe.
string cancels into orb or mine takes to long, those moves have to long startup, you would eat at least d1 every time, if the opponent is not fully retarded.
you can use orb or mine at the end of your combos, like b1,3~gravity pull MB, b3, ji3, 2,1~orb/mine/trait~dashcancel
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
f2 is -8 on block, so its unsafe and you cant hitconfirm into gravity pull, you have to commit to it and its risky.
b2,u3 is safe on block and you can hitconfirm to b2,u3,d3, its not a full combo, but you can check your opponent with that overhead, if you want to play it safe.
string cancels into orb or mine takes to long, those moves have to long startup, you would eat at least d1 every time, if the opponent is not fully retarded.
you can use orb or mine at the end of your combos, like b1,3~gravity pull MB, b3, ji3, 2,1~orb/mine/trait~dashcancel
What about canceling into those options w armor on?
 

Wemfs

The only morality in a cruel world is chance.
His 112 string being +63 on hit is probably best to cancel into anything with. I haven't tried cancelling in to his probe with any other string. I really wish I knew for certain all of his frame data was correct. =/
 

Malec

Apprentice
What about canceling into those options w armor on?
well we have to test this, but my guess will be, against "noobs", they wont respect your armor or +frames or whatever, cause they dont even know whats happening on the screen or they simply dont care, maybe against good players this could work. its unfortunate, that the only string that leaves lex at +frames (22d1) isnt special cancelable. that would be a good string to throw out setup drones or mines or whatever, cause they have to respect a d1 after they blocked the string.

His 112 string being +63 on hit is probably best to cancel into anything with. I haven't tried cancelling in to his probe with any other string. I really wish I knew for certain all of his frame data was correct. =/
112 is hitconfirmable to 112~gravity pull MB, yeah if you dont have the meter, you can cancel it into anything else
 

spin4u

Mortal
You can hit confirm B13 into gravity pull MB as well as F2 Gravity pull Mb
What I do after gravity pull MB is b3 is ji 3, u33,cancel into dd3> far mine so it lands on their wake up and negates them from doing a wake up. Worked on numerous of characters. Another set up I like to do is gravity pull mb, b3, ji1, d2~db3 orb. Ji3 for over head pressure/mix up. If they dont do a wake up atk. Which you could lead to empty ji,b13, d1, throw, etc. Another way to get trait lvl 3 is after the b3, ji2,u33~dd3 close mine then charge trait to lvl 3.
113 is good but misses on small characters if your not in their face. The first hit atleast. still learning set ups on or orb fakes so after they start their atk the mb orb interupts them for full punish.
 
I found a bit of a gimmick I guess. 112 mb gravity pull ji2 d1. d1 is +11 on hit. Leads to his low or 22d1. They can backdash out of it, but if you make the read you can go for gp or corp charge. Not sure if it's worth it going for, just thought I'd throw the idea out there.

Edit

Possibly some nice corner stuff. After mb gravity pull in corner, you can b13 up lance. Leave you at plus 10. Enough for a 22d1. Not sure if its found yet. Definitely needs further testing.
 

Thead

Mortal
22d1 from d1 can be blocked.
That's the point. It HAS to be blocked (or back dashed), if the opponent does anything else, they will be hit. Once an opponent respects they have limited options, you can mix other things in such as his Overhead/Low game.
 

Thead

Mortal
If that's the best Lex can do then you might as well pack that suit up and go home. That's not going to stop anyone.
The best he has? No, Lex has many other tools, this is just another option to his gameplay that some people might find interesting or useful.