Match-Up Discussion - Killer Leatherface (Killer) Match-Ups

[ii 2shay ii]

I'm a firm believer in Leatherface (Killer) not having any winning match-ups. So I'm creating a match-up chart for Leatherface. Let me know if you guys agree or disagree. This is for the "Killer" variation of Leatherface only.

Alien - Acidic (7-3), Tarkatan (6-4), Conjurer (5-5) - Alien wins
Jason - all variations (5-5) - Fair
Kung Lao - Hat Trick (5-5), Tempest (6-4), Buzzsaw (6-4) - Kung Lao wins
Jax - Wrestler (6-4), Heavy Weapons (6-4), Pumped Up (5-5) - Jax wins
Sonya - Special Forces (5-5), Covert Ops (6-4), Demolition (6-4) - Sonya wins
Kenshi - Kenjutsu (5-5), Balanced (6-4), Possessed (5-5) - Kenshi wins
Kitana - Mournful (5-5), Royal Storm (5-5), Assassin (6-4) - Kitana wins
Scorpion - all variations (5-5) - Fair
Subzero - Grandmaster (6-4), Cryomancer (5-5), Unbreakable (5-5) - Subzero wins
Mileena - Ravenous (5-5), Piercing (6-4), Ethereal (6-4) - Mileena wins
Takeda - Ronin (6-4), Shirai Ryu (6-4), Lasher (5-5) - Takeda wins
Cassie - all variations (6-4) - Cassie wins
Jacqui - High Tech (5-5), Shotgun (5-5), Full Auto (6-4) - Jacqui wins
Kung Jin - all variations (6-4) - Kung Jin wins
Tanya - Pyromancer (6-4), Kobu Jutsu (5-5), Dragon Naginata (5-5) - Tanya wins
Bo' Rai Cho - all variations (5-5) - Fair
Leatherface - Pretty Lady (6-4), Killer (10-0), Butcher (5-5) - Leatherface wins
Predator - Hish-Qu-Ten (6-4), Warrior (5-5), Hunter (5-5) - Predator wins
Shinnok - Bone Shaper (6-4), Necromancer (5-5), Imposter (6-4) - Shinnok wins
Kano - all variations (6-4) - Kano wins
Johnny Cage - A-List (6-4), Fisticuffs (5-5), Stunt Double (5-5) - Johnny Cage wins
Erron Black - Marksman (5-5), Gunslinger (6-4), Outlaw (5-5) - Erron Black wins
Lui Kang - Dualist (4-6), Flame Fist (6-4), Dragon's Fire (6-4) - Liu Kang wins
Ermac - Spectral (5-5), Mystic (6-4), Master of Souls (5-5) - Ermac wins
Kotal Kahn - all variations - Fair
Reptile - all variations (5-5) - Fair
Ferra Torr - Lackey (5-5), Ruthless (6-4), Vicious (6-4) - Ferra Torr wins
D'vorah - Venomous (5-5), Brood Mother (5-5), Swarm Queen (6-4) - D'vorah wins
Raiden - all variations - Fair
Quan Chi - all variations (6-4) - Quan Chi wins
Goro - all variations - Fair
Tremor - Crystaline (6-4), Aftershock (5-5), Metallic (5-5) - Tremor wins
Triborg - Smoke (6-4), Sektor (6-4), Cyrax (5-5), Cyber Subzero (5-5) - Triborg wins

Please share your thoughts about this chart.

 

[00001]

Haha at Pretty Lady being 8-2 while Piercing and Hollywood (two actual bad matchups) sit at 6-4.

Some of these are just downright overreactions. No way Killer loses 8-2 in any matchup.

 

[ii 2shay ii]

Haha at Pretty Lady being 8-2 while Piercing and Hollywood (two actual bad matchups) sit at 6-4.

Some of these are just downright overreactions. No way Killer loses 8-2 in any matchup.

This is why I'm asking for everyone's input. I found it hard to fight the Pretty Lady variation than the "piercing" and "hollywood." I can deal with the "piercing," being able to use my chainsaw cancel to run straight through projectiles and punish. Hollywood's only threat is her instant airs. I believe Acidic destroys Killer, I'll adjust the matchup for Pretty Lady.

 

[00001]

This is why I'm asking for everyone's input. I found it hard to fight the Pretty Lady variation than the "piercing" and "hollywood." I can deal with the "piercing," being able to use my chainsaw cancel to run straight through projectiles and punish. Hollywood's only threat is her instant airs. I believe Acidic destroys Killer, I'll adjust the matchup for Pretty Lady.

Cassie out-neutrals Leatherface pretty hard, and he has a lot of trouble getting in on IA gunshots. She controls the pace for sure. It's difficult.

The Piercing matchup is really really rough. She can low-profile just about everything he does, she has a far superior neutral, she easily breaks all of his armor and she zones him out really well.

Sorry if I sounded condescending. A lot of people post stuff like this and get stubborn, but you seem like you're trying to understand the character more. I'm not the best Leatherface player so I can't say too much, but hopefully some superior Killers out there can chime in and help you get a serious MU chart going.

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

i would put:
subzero grandmaster beats Killer 7-3
Vicious Ferra Torr beats Killer 6-4

I feel you with the list though, I tried my fair share with Killer and I don't think he beats anybody

 

[ii 2shay ii]

Cassie out-neutrals Leatherface pretty hard, and he has a lot of trouble getting in on IA gunshots. She controls the pace for sure. It's difficult.

The Piercing matchup is really really rough. She can low-profile just about everything he does, she has a far superior neutral, she easily breaks all of his armor and she zones him out really well.

Sorry if I sounded condescending. A lot of people post stuff like this and get stubborn, but you seem like you're trying to understand the character more. I'm not the best Leatherface player so I can't say too much, but hopefully some superior Killers out there can chime in and help you get a serious MU chart going.

I agree, but I find her advancing moves get destroyed by Leatherface's psycho rush, or his f1, 2 if LF's spacing is on point. LF has a great b2, d4, bf3 to keep her in check. Her IA's will forever be a problem.

I'm not sure if you're a player who has LF's psycho rush cancels down to deal with zoners, but I know w/o the cancels, it's extremely hard to get in on Mileena - Piercing. Once you're able to nullify her projectiles, she doesn't throw them as much, making it easier for LF to get in. Once you're in at a good distance it's only a matter of time before they roll or teleport. Both are punishable. It's at that range, LF can use his b1, into psycho rush to get in or just chip away at her health with the 50/50. I play this matchup a lot, having a ton of Mileena players on my list so I was able to adapt and find ways that work.

You didn't come off that condescending, but I understand where you're coming from. And yes, I am trying to understand the character more and from my understanding, LF (Killer) doesn't beat anyone. He has all these great tools and is extremely fun to play, but still loses the majority of his matches.

 

[TommyKing5]

I don't think Leatherface loses as many matchups as you say. Most of his matchups are 5-5. Only characters he struggles with really are Piercing Mileena, Swarm Queen D'vorah and A list Johnny.

Leatherface can outdamage 90% of the cast for a bar if you play your cards right. He has some of the best high attacks in the game, so he can punish most attacks with his f12.

He also has some of the best range in the game. If the 2 in f12 just clips your opponent beserker 1 will connect.

With Leatherface you need to conserve your meter, he doesn't do a good job at building it but the damage output he does for a bar is disgusting.

I think you over reacted a bit on this chart. He can hold his own against everyone in the cast. I firmly believe he doesn't lose any match ups 8-2, the worst ones being 7-3 and the majority being 5-5.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I honestly don't think he loses 7-3 to Grandmaster Sub. 6-4 at worst.

 

[TommyKing5]

I honestly don't think he loses 7-3 to Grandmaster Sub. 6-4 at worst.

I agree. Mid screen he can challenge the clone with b2, b4 and f12 if spaced correctly. Being in the corner sucks but that's the same story with most of the cast anyway.

 

[Ghosty1981]

My experience with Grandmaster Sub is that Killer can destroy clones if used properly. His reach is such that he can hit SZ "before" the clone makes contact with Killer's hit box.

If you use exbf3 you can break through the clone most of the time from almost full screen.

If you use f12 you can break through the clone at close range.

If they try to clone-throw from closer than full screen you can BS1 right through it (using the projectile-catch property of Berserker Stance) and catch them with a full-combo at best or a blocked BS1 bounce back at worst.

Killer is honestly much better against SZ than one could reasonably expect. All of the moves that make GM SZ so defensive against other characters are highly punishable by Killer.

 

[Rude]

This character doesn't have a single winning match up besides one of his own variations?

Idk...

 

[MadPropz101]

I never understood how people make these matchup threads. You can't assign a number to something like this, it depends on who is playing the characters. And honestly i don't think most of yall played a really good demo Sonya cause it would say 10-0 for most of your characters.

 

[ATP2014]

While I don't agree that Killer gets bodied quite as hard as you have listed, I do agree that he is pretty meh. Lower mid at best imo

 

[ArmedCalf]

okay no way all of Shinnok bodies him THAT hard. Imposter is probably 6-4, hell Bone Shaper might even be a 7-3, iunno. But NECRO beating him 8-2? No way that's gotta be either 5-5 or 6-4 at the very worst for Killer.

 

[PND OmegaK]

Is this the biggest downplaying thread on TYM?

 

[ii 2shay ii]

Is this the biggest downplaying thread on TYM?

I updated the list just now. I was definitely downplaying it based off of my experience. It should make more sense now.

 

[TommyKing5]

I feel that Killer goes about even with pretty much everyone bar the top tiers and zoners. He does lack mids but I think his damage more than makes up for it in my opinion...

Much more accurate than it was though. Keep working at it, but you are downplaying quite a lot... Leatherface isn't as terrible as you think lol. I've had success and won with him on and in offline tournaments against match-ups that you think he loses.