Kung Laos armor

[Ramichaura1]

I think we all agree that Kung lao armor should be punishable. You can't freely throw a brain dead move that has a 40% reward with literally 0 risk, sometimes they throw it our twice in a row, this is unacceptable. At least make it a high. Now I know someone will jump and say but then Kung Lao will have nothing, not true, all the characters have the same as him but with punishable armor

 

[kabelfritz]

well, it is part of the character concept that hes the one guy with a safe wakeup, but why NRS also decided to make it a gapless, mid, easy launcher is beyond me. dont know what my stance on that is. whats important to know though is that you can full combo punish it with a point blank neutral jump.

 

[Marlow]

Based on the rest of Kung Lao's kit, I think it's fine.

Kung Lao is a close range rushdown character. He doesn't really have a great way to get in, he doesn't have great advancing normals, or normals with much range. He doesn't have much of a 50/50 game other than relying on Kameo. If he wants his armor to launch he also has to rely on his kameo. Other than his 21 string he doesn't have any plus frames on block.

He's a resource heavy character who's going to spend most of the match fighting to get in, or being -5 to -7 right in the opponents face. Safe armor is his tool to help balance that. It's certainly a strong tool, but it's practically his only strong tool. Overall he seems like he's in a good spot to me, I don't think I'd change anything.

 

[colby4898]

He doesn't have much of a 50/50 game other than relying on Kameo.

I think that's a bit of a moot point when everyone relies on Kameos it's kinda the point of the game.

 

[Marlow]

I think that's a bit of a moot point when everyone relies on Kameos it's kinda the point of the game.

Good point. I guess what I was trying to say was that Kung Lao's 50/50 game is pretty normal relative to the rest of the cast.

 

[superbn0va]

At this point, Kung Lao’s armor is all he has.. other characters have safe strings that allow you to get meterless combos. Safe overhead and fast low combo starters for example..

Kung lao lacks so much and yall complain about his armor wake up move that cost meter anyway..

 

[Marlow]

I wouldn't say it's all he has, but it's clearly meant to be his strongest tool. He has other nice things. Solid character, seems like he's in a good spot to me.

 

[colby4898]

I don't think it's too strong but it's degenerate and annoying to play against, especially with meter build in this game it seems like it's literally always an option for him and it's a free way to get plus frames as 99% of them use goro

 

[superbn0va]

I wouldn't say it's all he has, but it's clearly meant to be his strongest tool. He has other nice things. Solid character, seems like he's in a good spot to me.

I might have exaggerated. Could you elaborate on what makes Kung Lao a solid character?
Maybe I missed on what makes him good compared to other character like J. Cage etc.

Some areas where I can see kung lao improve:

• Viable EX projectiles
• His regular spin attack is almost useless and his EX spin isn’t that better.
• Safe on block combo strings (meterless string is punishable)
  
  
  I’m not saying he is trash but he requires much more work and meter/bar compared to most other characters.

 

[kabelfritz]

I might have exaggerated. Could you elaborate on what makes Kung Lao a solid character?
Maybe I missed on what makes him good compared to other character like J. Cage etc.

Some areas where I can see kung lao improve:

• Viable EX projectiles
• His regular spin attack is almost useless and his EX spin isn’t that better.
• Safe on block combo strings (meterless string is punishable)
  
  
  I’m not saying he is trash but he requires much more work and meter/bar compared to most other characters.

kung lao has a 6 frame high which can be worth quite something

 

[Marlow]

I might have exaggerated. Could you elaborate on what makes Kung Lao a solid character?
Maybe I missed on what makes him good compared to other character like J. Cage etc.

First, I don't think asking "what makes him good compared to Cage" is realevant. Cage is arguably top tier, if not the best character in the game. Any character is going to look worse in comparison. It'd be like comparing any NBA all-star to Michael Jordan.

As to what makes him solid, here's what I like about him:

1. His 121 string is a safe, cancelable, gapless 3 hit string.
2. His B1 is 6 frames, so he can punish opponent's -7 strings with either B1 into special or just a safe B12.
3. His 212 string is a safe, cancelable, gapless 3 hit string. 21 is also +3 on block, and his standing 2 is just 8 frames, so he has some nice stagger pressure.
4. F2 is an 18f overhead, that can combo with Kameo. Unsafe, but nice range and pretty fast for an overhead that can lead to a combo.
5. B33 and B34 is a safe Mid/Low or Mid/OH mixup string. Technically fuzzyable, but it's tight. Very low risk mixup. Might be able to combo these with the right kameo.
6. B3 on hit also leaves Kung Lao +11 right next to his opponent, where he can jail his 212 or F333 strings.
7. F333 is a safe, cancelable, gapless 3 hit string.
8. D4 is a really solid safe poke
9. Buzzsaw is a solid projectile that knocks down on hit, very nice to have in projectile trade wars
10. Hat toss is a tad slow for a projectile but hits mid, so opponent can't neutral duck.
11. He has multiple ender options that lets him easily side switch or push to the corner
12. He has a divekick, so he can change his jump arc and lead to big damage.
13. He has solid damage, and that damage is pretty easy to execute. Took me 2 minutes just now to put together an easy 29% combo, one bar no kameo off of a safe 3 hit string that can easily be hit confirmed.
14. He has a nice anti air combo with standing 4.

He just seems solid to me. Lot of pressure from easily confirmable 3 hit strings, and if he hits he has fairly easy launcher into damage. Up close he can generate some really nice pressure, and convert that pressure into easy corner carry and damage. When he's right next to the opponent, he's got a lot of nice strings. And he has ways to deal with zoning, and that's before taking kameo into account.

To me his downside is that he's only really effective point blank range, so he's going to need to work to get in and likely have to block a lot of the opponents longer range strings. Also, while he has nice pressure, higher caliber opponents are going to be able to take that pressure and wait him out, so he's going to need to be blocking a lot of his opponents strings. Hence why I think it makes sense for him to have a really good armor move, since he's going to be in a position where he's going to need to block a lot. He wants to be on the opponent like glue, he's not much for zoning or neutral.

He does rely a bit more on meter compared to some, but it's not like meter is hard to come by in this game. Solid character, I don't think he needs much, if any, changes right now.

 

[superbn0va]

As to what makes him solid, here's what I like about him:

1. His 121 string is a safe, cancelable, gapless 3 hit string.
2. His B1 is 6 frames, so he can punish opponent's -7 strings with either B1 into special or just a safe B12.
3. His 212 string is a safe, cancelable, gapless 3 hit string. 21 is also +3 on block, and his standing 2 is just 8 frames, so he has some nice stagger pressure.
4. F2 is an 18f overhead, that can combo with Kameo. Unsafe, but nice range and pretty fast for an overhead that can lead to a combo.
5. B33 and B34 is a safe Mid/Low or Mid/OH mixup string. Technically fuzzyable, but it's tight. Very low risk mixup. Might be able to combo these with the right kameo.
6. B3 on hit also leaves Kung Lao +11 right next to his opponent, where he can jail his 212 or F333 strings.
7. F333 is a safe, cancelable, gapless 3 hit string.
8. D4 is a really solid safe poke
9. Buzzsaw is a solid projectile that knocks down on hit, very nice to have in projectile trade wars
10. Hat toss is a tad slow for a projectile but hits mid, so opponent can't neutral duck.
11. He has multiple ender options that lets him easily side switch or push to the corner
12. He has a divekick, so he can change his jump arc and lead to big damage.
13. He has solid damage, and that damage is pretty easy to execute. Took me 2 minutes just now to put together an easy 29% combo, one bar no kameo off of a safe 3 hit string that can easily be hit confirmed.
14. He has a nice anti air combo with standing 4.

These are kinda universal for every character in their own way plus most of them have more useful strings, specials and require less meter.

High strings are not that effective against good players, you can easily duck or interrupt those strings… B33 has slow start up and again requires meter to add some damage to your opponent.

His spin/EX spin and his EX projectiles feel unfinished. I don’t see how that is ok, unless I missed something. I don’t see the point to spend bar on his EX spin and or his EX projectiles. Even his regular spin feels kinda useless..

 

[Marlow]

Not many characters have gapless 3 hit strings that are special move cancelable and also safe on block.

High strings are fine as long as you use them from the right range and situation. His S2 is only 8 frames, so up close it's going to beat most mids or other highs, and it's easy to jail. The opponent can try and duck under it with a low like D1, but it's a gamble on their part since D1 is punishable on block, and even on hit all they're getting is plus frames to likely jail their own high strings. If the opponent tries to neutral duck they'd likely get hit by the 1 of the 21 part.

B3 is 13f startup, it's below average but it's not like glacially slow or anything. And it does a lot for him.

Spin is a worthless move, but he's not lacking for other good specials. Simply don't use it.

His projectiles are fine considering he's a rush down character. He can trade, he can knock down, they're useful in combos. Not sure what else he needs from his projectiles.

 

[superbn0va]

Spin is a worthless move, but he's not lacking for other good specials. Simply don't use it.

His projectiles are fine considering he's a rush down character. He can trade, he can knock down, they're useful in combos. Not sure what else he needs from his projectiles.

Fixing his spin and improving on his EX projectiles would be a good thing. No use for his spin and somehow EX projectiles is a lost for us who main Kung lao. Besides that, there is no point for having useless moves in a fighting game. Thanks for your reply’s.

 

[wsj515]

High strings are not that effective against good players, you can easily duck or interrupt those strings… B33 has slow start up and again requires meter to add some damage to your opponent.

Some of the best strings in the game are high - just because you can duck the first hit doesn't mean they aren't good. Usually high starting strings have the most utility / best properties precisely because they start with a high rather than mid. Jail your highs after pokes, Lao has good ones, or any other suitable hit advantage situations.

Doesn't EX projectile have a faster startup? That seems like a use to me. Same with spin, its not as good an armor move as his main one, but it has MU specific use.

I can't believe there are people out there downplaying a character that has been considered at least top 10 for the majority of the game's lifespan.

 

[Eldriken]

Some of the best strings in the game are high - just because you can duck the first hit doesn't mean they aren't good. Usually high starting strings have the most utility / best properties precisely because they start with a high rather than mid. Jail your highs after pokes, Lao has good ones, or any other suitable hit advantage situations.

Doesn't EX projectile have a faster startup? That seems like a use to me. Same with spin, its not as good an armor move as his main one, but it has MU specific use.

I can't believe there are people out there downplaying a character that has been considered at least top 10 for the majority of the game's lifespan.

I can't believe people downplay this character either. He's pretty god damn stupid. He's not the definitive best in the game, but he can carry his own just fine.

 

[kabelfritz]

Some of the best strings in the game are high - just because you can duck the first hit doesn't mean they aren't good. Usually high starting strings have the most utility / best properties precisely because they start with a high rather than mid. Jail your highs after pokes, Lao has good ones, or any other suitable hit advantage situations.

Doesn't EX projectile have a faster startup? That seems like a use to me. Same with spin, its not as good an armor move as his main one, but it has MU specific use.

I can't believe there are people out there downplaying a character that has been considered at least top 10 for the majority of the game's lifespan.

true, ive been labbing this guy recently and i wonder why not more top players pick him. he seems dry at frist but has quite some good stuff going for him. in my humble opinion, a character better left untouched for now.

 

[John_NX]

Even though I don't play him, nor am I interested in doing so, I'd much rather have them redesign him, and give him some neutral presence (which won't happen) than have him have a safe wakeup option. To me, it feels like a bad design overall, regardless of how good or bad he is. They keep making him braindead to fight.

 

[colby4898]

Even though I don't play him, nor am I interested in doing so, I'd much rather have them redesign him, and give him some neutral presence (which won't happen) than have him have a safe wakeup option. To me, it feels like a bad design overall, regardless of how good or bad he is. They keep making him braindead to fight.

Couldn't agree more he doesn't feel like Kung Lao to me, and it's not because he got a new era redesign, just cos he's kinda bland.

No spin as we know it, no multi hitting punch string like in MKX and MK11, no hat normals other than his over head, 2 hat projectiles which feels kinda similar and one is pretty reduced, the head lock move is just kinda random, the sort of air blast moves he has are just in his throw and fatal blow animations, no teleport. It just feels like they took away so much and gave him so little in return