Strategy - Kotal Kahn Kotal Kahn Ray Tech?

[TheFicinLegend]

I think that Kotal's sun rays are an underused aspect of the character. I don't think I've seen anything on here about his rays nor a thread about them. If you guys have any tips n tricks about his sun rays, leave them here!

 

[ll Nooby ll]

I always do them at the end of a combo in War God if I need the life.

Example:
EX Overhead Sword, F2, F2, F1B2~Sun

 

[regulas]

The issue is that in most cases you would get a greater benefit from another special hit. That extra 5-8% or so on the end of a combo usually outdoes whatever you will be able to practically get out of the ray, so it's mostly blood god that will use it because he often cant land air grab at the end and thus has nothing better to do.

Ray is a max of what 10% for the regular version, but without taking tons of chip it's unlikely to get more then 3-5% out of it.

I've said it plenty, but this move needs to be like 18 frames total duration or at least way way faster then current version to be worthwhile.

 

[Tomo009]

I always do them at the end of a combo in War God if I need the life.

Example:
EX Overhead Sword, F2, F2, F1B2~Sun

This isn't safe if they roll.


The truth is that it is just too slow to be safe in a game this fast. The only decent way to use it imo is to trade with a weak projectile with EX god ray to heal yourself SPECIFICALLY to timer scam. In all other situations I would rather do something else.

If this move was as good as Noxious Reptile's or Erron Black's it would be different.

 

[ll Nooby ll]

This isn't safe if they roll.


The truth is that it is just too slow to be safe in a game this fast. The only decent way to use it imo is to trade with a weak projectile with EX god ray to heal yourself SPECIFICALLY to timer scam. In all other situations I would rather do something else.

If this move was as good as Noxious Reptile's or Erron Black's it would be different.

This move, to me at least is good. VERY GOOD. Could you please give me wake ups that punish the combo mentioned into beam, I'm having trouble finding ones except for Reptiles EX Slide. But even for Reptile you can do:
EX Overhead, F2, run slightly, 114~Sun Beam.
This sacrifices two percent off the original combo I posted.

 

[regulas]

This move, to me at least is good. VERY GOOD. Could you please give me wake ups that punish the combo mentioned into beam, I'm having trouble finding ones except for Reptiles EX Slide. But even for Reptile you can do:
EX Overhead, F2, run slightly, 114~Sun Beam.
This sacrifices two percent off the original combo I posted.

I think the point is more that the only time you ever can use it is at the end of big juggle combo's it's too slow to ever use otherwise, only as I noted its rare that the beam will do more then you would get out of just doing more damage. That being said if you play Blood God it will still see some use at minimum.

 

[Pnut]

The problem is these combos put you so negative that it allows people to poke/jump out/throw whatever. I don't like having to guess when I knock down. In its current state god ray should be used sparingly, most of the time you should be trying to end in df2 (war god) so you can continue your oki. There are other situations but for the most part this should be your gameplan.

 

[ll Nooby ll]

I think the point is more that the only time you ever can use it is at the end of big juggle combo's it's too slow to ever use otherwise, only as I noted its rare that the beam will do more then you would get out of just doing more damage. That being said if you play Blood God it will still see some use at minimum.

I feel if he could throw it out in neutral without a hassle, he would be gaining too much life and the move would be too good, but that is my opinion.

Again it is only my opinion but I feel that it is worth it to gain back some life and lose a little bit of damage and a hkd. Especially considering that Kotal doesn't have very much in terms of pressure, and his 50/50s can put him at risk.

 

[LeeVanDam]

I agree with this completely. I've only seen two real opportunities for Sun Ray/God Ray:

1. After a decent juggle where the recovery frames are eaten up by the opponent waking up (the closer you can get this to only +2, the more likely you can make the buff a bait for you to parry their wake up attack)
2. Full screen distance, preferably after a Sunstone KD.

Outside of that, I would have to scare the religion out of my opponent with Sun God Choke before I would get enough respect to not be punished... and that's still only at lower level play.

 

[Hellbringer]

The only good use for sunray for me is to use it to end the round or match when your opponent has almost no health left.

 

[regulas]

I feel if he could throw it out in neutral without a hassle, he would be gaining too much life and the move would be too good, but that is my opinion.

Again it is only my opinion but I feel that it is worth it to gain back some life and lose a little bit of damage and a hkd. Especially considering that Kotal doesn't have very much in terms of pressure, and his 50/50s can put him at risk.

Regular beam is a max of 10% (if they leave you alone in it the whole time), and it leaves you open to be punished on reaction. You'll doubtfully get 5% out of it (2-4% seems most likely), and any projectile in the game will cancel that out. Any effort to stay in it will require chip damage further reducing what it gives. You can throw it out now safely only because noone realises how horribly they can punish you, but to give you an idea someone can on reaction dash/run fullscreen and fullcombo you before you are able to block.

 

[Chairface_ChipNDale]

The Sun Ray Brutality is my favorite. I always go for it at the end of a match when someone is full screen. I've had two people unaware what was going on and just stand in it and die. I got a good laugh out of it.

 

[KeyserSoze]

The issue is that in most cases you would get a greater benefit from another special hit. That extra 5-8% or so on the end of a combo usually outdoes whatever you will be able to practically get out of the ray, so it's mostly blood god that will use it because he often cant land air grab at the end and thus has nothing better to do.

Ray is a max of what 10% for the regular version, but without taking tons of chip it's unlikely to get more then 3-5% out of it.

I've said it plenty, but this move needs to be like 8 frames total duration or at least way way faster then current version to be worthwhile.

This sums up Sun Ray/God Ray rather nicely. I use it on occasion, but it just isn't fast enough to be used very often. And, even in blood god, if I am going to end a combo early (As an example: F2, F2, 21, Ex-air throw, B12, Sun Ray INSTEAD OF F2, F2, 21, Ex-air throw, 21, air throw), I would MUCH rather use the hit-advantage frames gained from ending the combo mid-juggle to throw out a totem than to throw out Sun Ray/God Ray. The only exception to this line of reasoning is if I am desperate for health, and even then, it's debatable.

IMO, Blood Offering >>>>> Sun Ray/God Ray in terms of utility and overall practicality.

edit: I want to keep reiterating this: Sun Ray/God Ray should ABSOLUTELY be sped up for Sun God and Blood God. It would help them immeasurably.

 

[KeyserSoze]

The Sun Ray Brutality is my favorite. I always go for it at the end of a match when someone is full screen. I've had two people unaware what was going on and just stand in it and die. I got a good laugh out of it.

I love it, as well. I also love both the dry rub (sun choke ender - sun god only) and totem this (uppercut - blood god only) brutalities, and luckily, both of them are much easier to use. Kotal Kahn is so hype.

 

[Crayraven]

I don't understand why blood offering or crystal totem doesn't affect sun ray damage. :<

 

[LeeVanDam]

I'm reposting this video in here because it was one I made up in order to show a couple of examples that will allow you to buff Blood Offering safely after a combo. When we juggle someone, we have to choose whether to get the ender damage... or future damage boost/heal. I don't think that's a bad thing, because you can still get decent damage before making that choice. Just remember that Blood Offering recovers 5 frames faster than Sun Ray, so any set ups you come up with that allow you to block after Sun Ray will also keep you safe for Blood Offering. Also, the closer you can get to where you're only around +2 for their wake up the more likely it is your opponent will do a wake up attack so you can parry it and boost damage even higher.

 

[Tomo009]

Sacrificing oki for blood offering overall seems like a much more realistic but still dubious thing. With Blood Offering, though it is much safer to set up, you not only have to make back the damage you lost and the oki (which is an absolutely massive thing to give up imo) but you also have to make the 10% life you lose worth it on top.

 

[LRK128]

The two things I use it for are 1. (rare) as a combo ender to get yourself from poke-death range to 2-poke-death range if you really need it 2. (once per match so they don't know it's coming) as a combo ender into a throw example war god EX DB1 F1B2 11 Sun Ray dash forward (i think forward) forward throw. With a correctly spaced throw you can take advantage of ray healing and damage even if they break it. If you connect a correctly spaced throw you get huge benefit from the ray. It also is very good when you have your opponent in the corner if you get it set up safely there. It's not a move to just use, but if you set it up right it can help a lot.

 

[Mr Aquaman]

Want some amazing ray tech?

VS Sub Zero

EX Ray yourself once he clones you in the corner, then enjoy yourself.

I really enjoy how much this truly covers. Still in beta phase but amazing so far.

 

[Khaoz77]

I would prefer Blood Sacrifice midscreen and Sun Ray (EX preferred) in the corner. As for the 10% lost for the Blood Sacrifice, I do like the fact that your opponent is now going to be more careful, maybe we could use that to our advantage.

The only problem is that without meter, we can't really keep our opponents in check. I am talking specifically about EX Sun Stone, that move just makes me feel so secure. With Kotal, I feel like we def have to play a very mindset heavy game. Kotal has all the tools to do so in every variation. We have to be smart and brutally accurate when it comes to different situations.

 

[Tomo009]

I would prefer Blood Sacrifice midscreen and Sun Ray (EX preferred) in the corner. As for the 10% lost for the Blood Sacrifice, I do like the fact that your opponent is now going to be more careful, maybe we could use that to our advantage.

The only problem is that without meter, we can't really keep our opponents in check. I am talking specifically about EX Sun Stone, that move just makes me feel so secure. With Kotal, I feel like we def have to play a very mindset heavy game. Kotal has all the tools to do so in every variation. We have to be smart and brutally accurate when it comes to different situations.

I've said this so many times, but EX god ray out of a juggle is straight unsafe in the corner. You can be full combo punished even by most characters.

Midscreen even, forward moving reversals will punish you, unless you sacrifice a lot of combo damage and probably defeat the purpose of the setup in doing so.

Blood Sacrifice is WAY more safe to set up though.

 

[Khaoz77]

I've said this so many times, but EX god ray out of a juggle is straight unsafe in the corner. You can be full combo punished even by most characters.

Midscreen even, forward moving reversals will punish you, unless you sacrifice a lot of combo damage and probably defeat the purpose of the setup in doing so.

Blood Sacrifice is WAY more safe to set up though.

What about Totems for Blood God? Would that be unsafe as well?

 

[Tomo009]

They are pretty safe I think and probably not a bad idea because they wouldn't get much damage (and no setup) from air throw ender anyway. I'm not a blood god player though.

 

[Hidan]

I always do them at the end of a combo in War God if I need the life.

Example:
EX Overhead Sword, F2, F2, F1B2~Sun

Nooby is right I use this too. Haven't been punished yet.
Also regular throw is another opportunity.

Generally I try to use this move a lot. I prefer it over even 5% more dmg in a combo. You don't have to fully heal yourself with it. It can be a bait for an extra "opportunity" (launcher) and these count more than extra dmg.

Plus I feel that sun ray is this extra tool that makes blood/sun god viable. Cause they need all the little tricks

 

[IcKY]

The only use I've found for Sun Ray is after a forward throw, immediately sunray after any throw midscreen, target them if they dont techroll/wakeup attack for more chip, or ray yourself to heal during their wakeup.

For sure wont work in the corner

*Also wont work against moves like Raidens EX bf3 and Kung jins EX Flykick, shown here

But here's something I think does work.