Killer Frost space control

[Pakman]

Below is a diagram showing Killer Frost's space control at any one point in time. It does not include jump in attacks, traits, certain specials (frost bite [parry] and ice berg [it tracks and must be blocked low] or supers. Please note these may not be 100% accurate as I do not have the exact hit box information - this is all based on what I could find out in training mode. It obviously does not account for frame data either.



Legend:
Red: Frost Daggers
Purple: Flash Freeze
Green: Black Ice
Blue: Normals (e.g standing 2 or d,3 etc)
Orange: Command normals (e.g B,3 or F,1 etc)

Notes:

* Look at that black ice range! No wonder people cry about it! It's just over 5 character spaces - insane!

* She's got a lot of attack ranges above her head. Potential AAs?

* 1, 1, 3, 3 is her furthest string (that blue square 2 1/2 character spaces in front of her)

* Apart from a few overlapping attack ranges, she generally has a lot of individual attack range that cover a lot of space. All in all, she can cover a lot of space extremely well. And that slide, man! LOOK AT IT!

Jer
Konqrr
RiBBz22
ABACABB
Peckapowa
FCP/EMP SCAR
GGA 16 Bit
Primiera

Please feel free to tag any one else that may find this information useful. Thanks!

 

[Roko1985]

Keep going man!

 

[RiBBz22]

Great post. It would be really sweet if you could somehow blow up the picture and make it so the legend is on the picture itself. I think that would make things easier to read and see what is what (specifically with normals). Maybe doing a separate one for normals and specials would help so the picture doesn't get too busy.

 

[G4S KT]

Slide is a pretty silly move. It's up there with batman's trait.

I wonder whose idea it was to have the meterless version combo... seems to have made more sense to make meterless 10% UTKD and metered launch

 

[RiBBz22]

Slide is a pretty silly move. It's up there with batman's trait.

I wonder whose idea it was to have the meterless version combo... seems to have made more sense to make meterless 10% UTKD and metered launch

There is no metered version brahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[G4S KT]

There is no metered version brahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

lmao there should be in the way I described!

But then you don't have meter to use your parry that leads to full combo or your command grab that leads to full combo

 

[RiBBz22]

lmao there should be in the way I described!

But then you don't have meter to use your parry that leads to full combo or your command grab that leads to full combo

luls, maybe we should make the metered version of the slide un-blockable TROLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[Pakman]

Great post. It would be really sweet if you could somehow blow up the picture and make it so the legend is on the picture itself. I think that would make things easier to read and see what is what (specifically with normals). Maybe doing a separate one for normals and specials would help so the picture doesn't get too busy.

Thanks for the feed back! I will try and implement those ideas from now on.

 

[Konqrr]

Slide is a pretty silly move. It's up there with batman's trait.

I wonder whose idea it was to have the meterless version combo... seems to have made more sense to make meterless 10% UTKD and metered launch

If a slide was untechable like sweep... then she would pretty much get a free cmd grab anyways for a full combo

 

[miloPKL]

nice man

 

[Lord Beef]

This is awesome dude. Good work.

 

[Jer]

Wow good shit dude.

 

[Rokinlobster]

These threads are absolutely amazing. How do you go about doing them? Id like to make some for Mortal Kombat.

 

[Pakman]

These threads are absolutely amazing. How do you go about doing them? Id like to make some for Mortal Kombat.

Glad you asked.

It's actually very easy. Time consuming, but easy.

I use training mode to test the moves. Set collision box on (this helps a lot) and just go through each attack - taking any notes on the way. It helps so much if you have a grid based map (Themyscira temple section, in injustice - I recently found has a grid floor which tends to roughly correspond with 1 character space per grid. For MK, I think it has a training stage with grids on the floor?) as these can help you properly mark out the exact reach of an attack.

I don't mark out certain attacks like jump ins because they have too much variation (jump forward, jump back, at different heights etc) and you wouldn't be able to see them very clearly (in fact, it's messy enough as it is!). IMO those would be better off in their own individual picture.

I then use MS Word; paste the appropriate picture and use the shape tool to create the hit boxes in line with what I test. Once it's completed, I paste it into paint, save as jpeg and upload via photobucket.

Again, I must to re-iterate, these are most likely NOT 100% accurate because it's based on my testing in game and not the actual hit box data from NRS themselves.

 

[kappie.wp]

Good work man!

 

[Primiera]

Since this is a space control topic, I want to ask a few questions:

How do you guys deal with extremely jump heavy characters/opponents who you can't AA with d+2? What is the "punish" if any? Obviously you have to either get out of the way, jump at them, or block it and parry/push-block/actually block. Any other options? Neutral jump 2 seems pretty good in this regard, it stays out a while and has good horizontal range. I don't know, I think checking jumps is kind of important against people who don't like to stay on the ground for fear of slide, and it's damn hard to do so without a pre-emptive jumping attack (match-up dependent).

Likewise, how do you really zone with her? Against someone who isn't a moron, I mean. You can jump or duck her Frozen Daggers easily, and her Glacier is negative enough on block that they can dash in or straight up shoot you back. I feel like she's relegated to counter zoning and possibly a Frozen Dagger here or there. I feel like you can only hit with them naked at the riskiest of ranges, in jump range, tagging someone's poke or jump start-up.

 

[HugeMcBigLarge]

She's not really a zoning character is she? She has tools to (like most characters) and I'd really only zone someone that doesn't have obvious answers to those things. Daggers hit twice so breaks armor, and they do 11% which trades better than most projectiles. Her counter zoning is fantastic though, if you MB glacier, then you can full combo punish/vortex even from full screen (just dash once and slide).
Anyone try AA'ing w/ 2,2 like sub-zero?

 

[Law Hero]

I don't really ever try to zone with her unless the opponent is truly incompetent.

I really think (and this is all personal, I'm obviously no authority) she's all about the mid range. At long range, her goal is to pressure the opponent into getting in. Forcing them to stop trying to zone long range, and move in close. She doesn't really get crazy damage/combos from full screen (apart from MB glacier at certain distances), so I just use her daggers/glacier to annoy the opponent. Once they move into range, I try to punish a dash/jump/whiff with slide into her reset. If they get in too close, back dash or air back dash back into that sweet spot range outside of their normals.

 

[rainuS]

Great post, good work man! Thanks!

 

[Konqrr]

Since this is a space control topic, I want to ask a few questions:

How do you guys deal with extremely jump heavy characters/opponents who you can't AA with d+2? What is the "punish" if any? Obviously you have to either get out of the way, jump at them, or block it and parry/push-block/actually block. Any other options? Neutral jump 2 seems pretty good in this regard, it stays out a while and has good horizontal range. I don't know, I think checking jumps is kind of important against people who don't like to stay on the ground for fear of slide, and it's damn hard to do so without a pre-emptive jumping attack (match-up dependent).

Likewise, how do you really zone with her? Against someone who isn't a moron, I mean. You can jump or duck her Frozen Daggers easily, and her Glacier is negative enough on block that they can dash in or straight up shoot you back. I feel like she's relegated to counter zoning and possibly a Frozen Dagger here or there. I feel like you can only hit with them naked at the riskiest of ranges, in jump range, tagging someone's poke or jump start-up.

Against characters like Batman who's J2 is ridiculously good, you almost can't anti air it. Sometimes the best thing to do is block. You can dash under them and if you do it early enough you are at advantage and they have to respect your next move.

I know that a character like GL can actually punish whiffed jumping attacks with his b1 for a full combo (they have to attack in the air or they can block when they land)... perhaps Frost can use b1 or slide the same?

You can also armor a f3/b3 which will hit them if you release it at the right time... but Frost's f3 moves her forward and if you don't space it correctly, your opponent will go behind you and can full combo you.

 

[16 Bit]

I know that a character like GL can actually punish whiffed jumping attacks with his b1 for a full combo (they have to attack in the air or they can block when they land)... perhaps Frost can use b1 or slide the same?

She can punish whiffed jump attacks with slide.

 

[Konqrr]

She can punish whiffed jump attacks with slide.

Can she dash under a jump and slide the opposite way and have it still hit if you dash early enough? I was thinking of trying this the other day, but haven't had the opportunity to try yet.

 

[16 Bit]

Can she dash under a jump and slide the opposite way and have it still hit if you dash early enough? I was thinking of trying this the other day, but haven't had the opportunity to try yet.

Yeah, you can. Although it'd be easier to do d+1~slide since you'd probably be close.