Menu
By:
Filters
What's new

Breakthrough Kabal's overhead has less pushback when fuzzy guarded and may be unsafe?

STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Not sure if this was already known, but I've been labbing some MK9 recently and noticed this while applying pressure strings. The blockstun itself seems to have the same recovery and is probably still -9 when blocked. I tested this today and I can confirm 100% that Kung Lao is able to punish with 2,4,1+2/2,4~Plum Flower. (2,4~Spin also reaches but is stance specific as most Lao mains are already well aware).

Also tried testing Liu Kang's standing 2 and Cyrax's standing 1, which are (probably) the next fastest long range jabs in the game, but no cigar. Granted, it's worth noting that the testing partner I had on hand wasn't particularly.. ideal.. and that's a generous understatement lol. So it might just be that I wasn't prepared to punish to the frame with those characters rather than the jabs not reaching by the 9th frame after recovery.

If anyone else wants to look into this, the most likely candidates to punish (along with the ones I mentioned above) are:

Cage's F3 or standing 1
Jax's F4 or standing 1
Kabal's F4 or standing 2

Unlikely candidates due to lack of range at neutral frames, but I'll list them just in case:

Sonya's 114
Sektor's 11B1
Shang's B1214
Raiden's 121
Quan Chi's D2 (well... it's better than nothing)
Sub-Zero's 212

Disclaimer: I was already aware that it was punishable by fast advancing specials like Reptile's dash or Kenshi's Spirit Charge, and they should still be able to do it regardless of the blockstun.

Would've been better if I found out about this 2-3 years ago, but still useful information I guess.
 
Last edited:
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
You are talking about when you block the overhead but the character is still in crouching animation, right?
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
For anyone who's not clear on what I'm talking about, go to training mode and do the following:

Set the training dummy (preferably use Kung Lao as the dummy since he's the only character I have a definite punish with so far) to stand block and do the overhead point blank by itself just to get an idea of how much pushback there usually is.

Now set to crouch block and do any string into the overhead, during the startup of the overhead, pause and set back to stand block, you'll notice that the dummy is automatically put into a fuzzy state and there's much less pushback. Kung Lao is well in range to punish with standing 2.

And yes, I also tested this in an actual match in versus mode if anyone was thinking this is all just a training mode glitch lol.
 
ENDeverMORE

ENDeverMORE

The incredible introvert
STRYKIE said:
Alas, there is no knowledge that is not power.

Hopefully there'll be a HOG meet for MK9/IGAU casuals before MKX drops though. I'll try and elaborate more there.
Click to expand...
I mean my reactions are too poor to play this game properly, I know its punishable with that, and I understand how that works with you explanation, buuuut until smokes d1 smokebomb is no longer a block infinate online. I'm a scrub.
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
ENDeverMORE said:
I mean my reactions are too poor to play this game properly, I know its punishable with that, and I understand how that works with you explanation, buuuut until smokes d1 smokebomb is no longer a block infinate online. I'm a scrub.
Click to expand...
D1 smoke bomb is a 100%
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
TheTetraSpirit said:
FYI, 9f normals can't punish -9 moves. It don't work like Street Fighter, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Not true. It takes some practice to get the feel of the blockstun but frame perfect punishes can be done in MK9.

Kung Lao's standing 2 being able to punish Stryker's roll (which is precisely -7 on block) is an example of this if you want to test for yourself.
 
TwiztidOne

TwiztidOne

I don't know who that is...
STRYKIE said:
Not true. It takes some practice to get the feel of the blockstun but frame perfect punishes can be done in MK9.

Kung Lao's standing 2 being able to punish Stryker's roll (which is precisely -7 on block) is an example of this if you want to test for yourself.
Click to expand...
I tested it out in training mode, are you sure it works again a real opponent?
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The Overhead is probably -9 or -8 but has a push back that most of the hitting normals won't reach in time.
The saw is -13, it has less pushback when performed from a blockstring, if you have a 13f punish move and you just frame it you're able to punish.

The reason i never got overwhelmed by Kabals in my scene its because Skarlet can get clean punishes with F4 on a blocked saw, which was a tool they started to consider less as an option to use on that Match up, same as overhead slam, which has a 2 or 3 frames gap between hits of blockstrings, so since it can be armored out, they only bet was NDCs ending blockstrings with saw or overhead was out of the question.
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
TwiztidOne said:
I tested it out in training mode, are you sure it works again a real opponent?
Click to expand...
Well I haven't done that specific punish in a real match since there's barely any Stryker players lol. But yes, it works. If you're still not convinced, do Ermac's standing 1 (a 10 frame jab) to punish Kenshi's Spirit Charge up close, that'll work too.

Eddy Wang said:
The Overhead is probably -9 or -8 but has a push back that most of the hitting normals won't reach in time.
The saw is -13, it has less pushback when performed from a blockstring, if you have a 13f punish move and you just frame it you're able to punish.

The reason i never got overwhelmed by Kabals in my scene its because Skarlet can get clean punishes with F4 on a blocked saw, which was a tool they started to consider less as an option to use on that Match up, same as overhead slam, which has a 2 or 3 frames gap between hits of blockstrings, so since it can be armored out, they only bet was NDCs ending blockstrings with saw or overhead was out of the question.
Click to expand...
See I knew most links into the overhead were interruptible but it always seemed soooo risky. If you miss the buffer by a single frame you'll get meter drained (and possibly also still get hit) :(.

Even if some of these moves do not reach by the first active frame, at least they are fast enough to make Kabal players think twice about trying to use armor afterwards lol.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
STRYKIE said:
See I knew most links into the overhead were interruptible but it always seemed soooo risky. If you miss the buffer by a single frame you'll get meter drained (and possibly also still get hit) :(.

Even if some of these moves do not reach by the first active frame, at least they are fast enough to make Kabal players think twice about trying to use armor afterwards lol.
Click to expand...
I was impressive good at interrupting those, its just a matter of having practice time or a good training partner, remember that i got to the point to punish my opponents D1 on block with Skarlet's F4 pretty consistent, that time i knew i was setting a new bar that pulled me far above all else's.
 
STRYKIE

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
KungLao's Shoes said:
Do you remember how much disadvantage sektors ex teleport was? I believe it was punishable on paper by spin but I never punished it with spin.
Click to expand...
It seems to have different pushback properties depending on whether you block it crouching or not. You do recover while Sektor is still in the air but the Spin's hitbox arc is slightly out of range during the first few active frames. If you block it crouching it sucks you in but seems to have more blockstun making it safer.

Sigh... If only Somberness was still around....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.