Joker vs. Enchantress, what can Joker do?

[Vengeance135]

Hey guys,

So I've been grinding this MU out both in lab and vs other enchantress players. The more I play this MU, the more of a nightmare it seems for joker.

Things I've noticed in this MU:

Enchantress runs the neutral. Her forward advancing strings mixed with their push back are actually hard to deal with using joker.

Enchantress owns the air. Joker can't jump on this woman at all and can't anti air her unless he makes the read.

Once her trait is out, joker has to hold that shit. Jokers jump arc is way too low to jump over the trait or explosion unless he jumps over right in his face at the last second but then enchantress can either trip guard joker or just d2 his ass out the sky. Armored moves don't work because it's a 2 consecutive hit move so, again, jokers holding it.

Joker cannot zone her. Hells gate mixed with trait and her curses completely kills jokers zone game.

Which leads me to the curses. Now I don't know how they work in other MU's, but in this MU they are an absolute nightmare. She has a curse that damages you for jumping (that's jokers main way to get in), she has a curse for negating special moves (joker can't do any damage without his specials) and on top of that, her curses do damage on top of the effect.

The only time joker can actually do anything is if he corners her, but even then if she blocks and reverses, her corner game is suffocating to joker.

Outside of making proper reads and getting punishes where ever I can, I have not found a solid way to win this MU.

So with all this being said, I need some help. Any tips?

 

[thlityoursloat]

If his OH canister can be reflected then i will lose my shit.

 

[Gilbagz]

i actually feel this match up is the one match up where trait is good
you can get level 2 out and at worst you eat a few curses
she cant stop you
at level 2, she has to commit more attention to anti air. the extra walk speed lets you walk in and out of trait range to waste it, and since she has to focus so much to anti air, you can walk and dash in.
level 3 works too, but its a tonne more punishable if she reads it with mb dash into death

 

[Vengeance135]

i actually feel this match up is the one match up where trait is good
you can get level 2 out and at worst you eat a few curses
she cant stop you
at level 2, she has to commit more attention to anti air. the extra walk speed lets you walk in and out of trait range to waste it, and since she has to focus so much to anti air, you can walk and dash in.
level 3 works too, but its a tonne more punishable if she reads it with mb dash into death

So trait boost to walkspeed is definitely nice. I didn't think of that. But how does that help the neutral? While you activate level 2 trait due to how slow it is, she can summon the demon free in which she doesnt need to worry about you jumping. She can just follow the demon and start her offense or even start her curses if she wants to and you are forced to hold the demon because your short jump arc is way too fast to jump over him.

 

[PetulantWaste]

If his OH canister can be reflected then i will lose my shit.

Depending on the range you can toss the oh canister over Hell's Gate but if not it's reflected. I think it's pretty clearly in Enchantress' favor. I think this match up is pretty similar to Dr Fate in that the goal is to go in and stay in and punish her wake up.

 

[Vengeance135]

Depending on the range you can toss the oh canister over Hell's Gate but if not it's reflected. I think it's pretty clearly in Enchantress' favor. I think this match up is pretty similar to Dr Fate in that the goal is to go in and stay in and punish her wake up.

Yeah I'm starting to get that feeling to.

 

[Gilbagz]

So trait boost to walkspeed is definitely nice. I didn't think of that. But how does that help the neutral? While you activate level 2 trait due to how slow it is, she can summon the demon free in which she doesnt need to worry about you jumping. She can just follow the demon and start her offense or even start her curses if she wants to and you are forced to hold the demon because your short jump arc is way too fast to jump over him.

cos our walk is faster, i walk into demon range to bait the overhead then walk straight back out. it whiffs completely.
or even just set up teeth to stall while demon approaches

just tested again, our jump arc is shorter, but cos its so fast we can late jump and still get over the overhead and avoid the explosion

 

[Vengeance135]

cos our walk is faster, i walk into demon range to bait the overhead then walk straight back out. it whiffs completely.
or even just set up teeth to stall while demon approaches

just tested again, our jump arc is shorter, but cos its so fast we can late jump and still get over the overhead and avoid the explosion

You tested the jump with trait active? I haven't had a chance to get on yet. I know without jokers trait active you can jump over the demon but she can trip guard joker or just d2 if she's behind the demon.

 

[Rosie]

From my experience, she just outranges the crap outta us. Most of my successes have come with punishing her wakeup and trying to keep her at a distance where you can bf3 her if she commits to a reflect or a curse. I still think she's easy to contain in the corner when we get her there, but getting her there is becoming more of a struggle as her players get better with her.

 

[Gilbagz]

You tested the jump with trait active? I haven't had a chance to get on yet. I know without jokers trait active you can jump over the demon but she can trip guard joker or just d2 if she's behind the demon.

yeah with trait, trait makes it easier to get over demon

 

[Phresh&Greedy]

Hope I’m not too late but the matchup is 6-4 to me. But its definitely winnable got at least 80% win rate with the MU. So trait is definitely key every time she puts up the wall go to at least lvl2 I go for 3 personally it’s worth it. Once at lvl 2 forward dash toward the zombie then back dash guaranteed whiff. I usually catch her mid curse when I got 3trait for a punish. Also once the walls up pull out your gun, cancel Forward dash or just cancel , she’ll be ducking waiting for an anti air b1 crazed run or raw crazed run she’s not gonna know what hit her lol. After doing that a couple times it’s fair game she has to change up the gameplan

 

[QueenOmega]

Hope I’m not too late but the matchup is 6-4 to me. But its definitely winnable got at least 80% win rate with the MU. So trait is definitely key every time she puts up the wall go to at least lvl2 I go for 3 personally it’s worth it. Once at lvl 2 forward dash toward the zombie then back dash guaranteed whiff. I usually catch her mid curse when I got 3trait for a punish. Also once the walls up pull out your gun, cancel Forward dash or just cancel , she’ll be ducking waiting for an anti air b1 crazed run or raw crazed run she’s not gonna know what hit her lol. After doing that a couple times it’s fair game she has to change up the gameplan

How is the matchup a 6-4 if you have 80% of wins. That's some arrogance right there.