Johnny Cage incontestable needed fixes

[M.D.]

Hello.

As there is a constant flow of back and forth discussions with people pushing the viability of Cage and calling the Cage community downplayers, even when arguments were provided each time, we need to have a clear vision about what this character needs.

The following is a list of needed fixes that are incontestable. Meaning there is no possible single logical argument in existence to argue that they should not be fixed, period.

1. Johnny Cage should have his hurtbox fixed in order for other characters to not whiff mids or projectiles on him.
2. Every SINGLE whiffing issue in << this >> thread needs to be fixed, period. Highs and projectiles should NOT whiff on crouch block, ever.
3. Photo camera must link from every single string that nutpunch does from.
4. Glass throw should be a true mid and remove the -30 on block as we're not imbecilic.
5. Fix the 121 input bug where it becomes not special cancelable if doing a very fast dial perfect input
6. Cage must have his krushing blow conditions fixed for the following:
   1. Parry - KB condition should be identical to Liu Kang's parry
   2. Nut punch - reworked. Spending a bar for a KB yields 35% damage, as the current top tiers get for free. Not ok.
   3. f43 KB should trigger on kounter or punish, and the damage should be 30-32% as it starts of a 14 frame mid.
   4. Photo camera KB condition reworked to not have to whiff it 3 times and die before you load it up.
   5. Add a throw KB, since he has no 9 frame mid or 50-50, and his gameplan revolves arround throws. There is no tool to compensate for the lack of a KB throw.

That is it. We don't need f3 mid, f4 9 frame or plus on block or other out worldly buffs that have been circulating arround.

With the above fixes I am pretty sure we would have a legit top tier character that is viable in all matchups while not being broken or relying on broken tools.

Anyone who claims he doesn't need any of the above or that "he's fine" should just save the trouble and just go and pick up another character.

Thank you.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Glass throw should be a true mid and remove the -30 on block as we're not imbecilic.

No brainer I mean his glasses are iconic and should be useable if not powerful. They are $500 sunglasses after all.

Your requests are reasonable. I've also heard some complaints about his Frame traps? WTF right they are interrupted by almost anything since he uses a 18f low to follow up at that pushback range.

 

[Name v.5.0]

We'll never get that throw KB, but everything else I can get behind.

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

Meaning there is no possible single logical argument in existence to argue that they should not be fixed, period.

It adds depth to the gameplay

---

On a more serious note, I agree with the following points (I'm a Johnny main but I'll try to be as objective as possible) : 1, 2, 3 and 5

For the throwing shades : I think the projectile should be safe but minus so we can use it as a pressure tool. I think -7 would be great so the only characters able to punish it would be the characters with a 6 frames poke, and the other characters will simply gain their turn after it. Also, the startup should be long enough to have a Flawless Block gap but short enough to not being counter pokable. And if succesfully Flawless Blocked, it would leave Cage at -11 so punishable by every character.
Of course the shades would keep the same range but becomes a true mid projectile.
I could talk about the dumb input for the move but that is not important

For the Krushing Blows :

1. It should be something like "Triggers after the 3rd meter burned Nut Punch of the game". So the 4th nut punch would be a KB and have more damage off the KB without making it too easy to trigger.
2. I agree on this one, if you activate Easy KBs in practice a f34 punish would already deal ~310 damage
3. Same requirement as the Nut punch
4. If he gets the KBs previously listed, he won't need a throw KB.

And you forgot about the Throwing Shades KB, the current one sucks, I think it should be changed to "Triggered if the move lands in a Kombo of 8 or more and the opponent is not in a juggle state", it would be perfect along the main purpose of Showstoppable.

That is it. We don't need f3 mid, f4 9 frame or plus on block or other out worldly buffs that have been circulating arround.

I agree 100%

 

[FoughtDragon01]

I'm fine with the Nut Punch KB. It just needs to do more damage. Maybe just shy of/a little bit over 40% since the opponent can still use Breakaway. For Camera, a more reasonable requirement would be land the amplified version 3 times, and the 4th triggers the KB, like with Sub's slide. Everything else seems pretty spot on.

Especially that parry change. NRS, pls ffs

 

[CmC_HAt]

i will play geras infinite warden till they balance this f game

 

[Owerbart]

Hello.

As there is a constant flow of back and forth discussions with people pushing the viability of Cage and calling the Cage community downplayers, even when arguments were provided each time, we need to have a clear vision about what this character needs.

The following is a list of needed fixes that are incontestable. Meaning there is no possible single logical argument in existence to argue that they should not be fixed, period.

1. Johnny Cage should have his hurtbox fixed in order for other characters to not whiff mids or projectiles on him.
2. Every SINGLE whiffing issue in << this >> thread needs to be fixed, period. Highs and projectiles should NOT whiff on crouch block, ever.
3. Photo camera must link from every single string that nutpunch does from.
4. Glass throw should be a true mid and remove the -30 on block as we're not imbecilic.
5. Fix the 121 input bug where it becomes not special cancelable if doing a very fast dial perfect input
6. Cage must have his krushing blow conditions fixed for the following:
   1. Parry - KB condition should be identical to Liu Kang's parry
   2. Nut punch - reworked. Spending a bar for a KB yields 35% damage, as the current top tiers get for free. Not ok.
   3. f43 KB should trigger on kounter or punish, and the damage should be 30-32% as it starts of a 14 frame mid.
   4. Photo camera KB condition reworked to not have to whiff it 3 times and die before you load it up.
   5. Add a throw KB, since he has no 9 frame mid or 50-50, and his gameplan revolves arround throws. There is no tool to compensate for the lack of a KB throw.

1. Agree 100%
2. Agree 100%

3 Agree 100%, but not that important, also punishing with a 14 frame startup move is still shitty and won't work in most situations won't work.

1. Agree 100% but not that important
2. Agree 100%

Your Krushing Blow conditions are still too weak IMO. I feel the problem with Showstopper cage and Shock Jock is that their gameplay is almost the same. There's no benefit between choosing one or the other.

To be honest with you if those are the only changes, I feel we might as well keep our real state in bottom tier city.

My changes:

1. Whiff issues fixed, both against cage and cage's ones.
2. Animation for practical crushing blows (shadow kick krushing blow, maybe a caged rage krushing blow)
3. F3 is modified to be a mid
4. Fix 121 input bug
5. Fisticuffs take less activation time.

 

[Ozzy_K]

I want Pissed Off to be a command grab and added to existing or new tournament variation.

 

[Mikemetroid]

Take Show Stopper and throw it in the fucking TRASH

 

[Hallucinogen]

Sounds legit.
throw kb will really compliment his play style and add a layer to his mind games since he's already very honest.

I also think that:

1. he should have his f4 mid buffed by 2-3~ f since it's not hit confirmable anyways or/and f44 will have more pushback.
2. f4bd3 string input fix? Mid screen juggle combos using this string reads as f43 more often than not, especially online and that whiffs and unsafe af.
3. he should get a krushing blow on his glow kick on full range since it's his main counter zoning tool and should have high reward since it's a very punishable high that is on the slow side compared to jaqui and erron, both have krushing blows and are safer.
4. faster start up on the parry, I mean, its animation is so bad you can barely land it in a serious match.

And generally speaking, something needs to be done about online input lag. Johnny needs his d4 jails but online it's often times just doesn't work and you get d2 by braindead d2 mashers. It rewards wifi warriors (scorpions)....which is very frustrating, but I digress...

 

[Rodney Quillz]

Sounds legit.
throw kb will really compliment his play style and add a layer to his mind games since he's already very honest.

I also think that:

1. he should have his f4 mid buffed by 2-3~ f since it's not hit confirmable anyways or/and f44 will have more pushback.
2. f4bd3 string input fix? Mid screen juggle combos using this string reads as f43 more often than not, especially online and that whiffs and unsafe af.
3. he should get a krushing blow on his glow kick on full range since it's his main counter zoning tool and should have high reward since it's a very punishable high that is on the slow side compared to jaqui and erron, both have krushing blows and are safer.
4. faster start up on the parry, I mean, its animation is so bad you can barely land it in a serious match.

And generally speaking, something needs to be done about online input lag. Johnny needs his d4 jails but online it's often times just doesn't work and you get d2 by braindead d2 mashers. It rewards wifi warriors (scorpions)....which is very frustrating, but I digress...

If nrs wanted to be lazy with it they could reuse the mime time kB punch animation on his forward throw since it has punches in it.

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

Just a slight QoL change, please change the input of f43 to f4u3 so we don't get punished when someone breaks while Johnny is ending his combo in f4 nutpunch. It's unfair because it is not what we intended to do and we get punished for it.

Please stop asking f3 to be a mid. I don't want Johnny to be broken. If we get the hitboxes fixed and decent KBs then it would be enough for now. It is hard right now to realize how strong Johnny is because he has so much whiffing issues. If he gets his hitboxes fixed and has like just a decent KB or two, then I think it would be enough (For vanilla Johnny/Shock Jock at least) for now.

 

[Deleted member 35141]

Thats the issue is he has so many problems sometimes it's easy to say just give him a mid but if they FIX these things he would be fine and might be used in tournaments.

Yea as above f43 really sucks as it comes out often on accident but if they fix the hitboxes it could be a decent string as its +7 on block

 

[Owerbart]

Just a slight QoL change, please change the input of f43 to f4u3 so we don't get punished when someone breaks while Johnny is ending his combo in f4 nutpunch. It's unfair because it is not what we intended to do and we get punished for it.

Please stop asking f3 to be a mid. I don't want Johnny to be broken. If we get the hitboxes fixed and decent KBs then it would be enough for now. It is hard right now to realize how strong Johnny is because he has so much whiffing issues. If he gets his hitboxes fixed and has like just a decent KB or two, then I think it would be enough (For vanilla Johnny/Shock Jock at least) for now.

saying that f3 being a mid would break the kharacter is a fallacy that has no legs to it. F3 being mid wouldn't even make it a top 10 normal in the game, and johnny would still be out of top 10 kharacters. F3 would still link only to 44 which has an animation with enough time for the opponent to process what is happening and knowing that he has the immediate turn afterwards. Scorpion, Jax, Jacqui, Erron, Geras, Kabal, Liu, Kung, Sub, Cassie all would still have better mids.

 

[ShepherdOfFire]

saying that f3 being a mid would break the kharacter is a fallacy that has no legs to it. F3 being mid wouldn't even make it a top 10 normal in the game, and johnny would still be out of top 10 kharacters. F3 would still link only to 44 which has an animation with enough time for the opponent to process what is happening and knowing that he has the immediate turn afterwards. Scorpion, Jax, Jacqui, Erron, Geras, Kabal, Liu, Kung, Sub, Cassie all would still have better mids.

Maybe, but I'd prefer NRS to not buff him a lot in the next patch just to see how Cage plays in the meta with his current moveset but without all these issues.

 

[SpideR]

If F3 does not change to mid is ok to me, but give me a F2 mid instead.
Also i agree 100% whith the rest

 

[FoughtDragon01]

Post-patch, these changes still seem reasonable. He'd actually be complete without any outlandish buff.

 

[Spoons440]

Man his stunt double is trash. SO much start up and recovers makes it useless. But hey they did say they hate Johnny cage. I think they just want the girl Cassie to steal all his shit. I mean, they gave him the camera variation so that explains a lot right there

 

[SwiftEagle]

Man his stunt double is trash. SO much start up and recovers makes it useless. But hey they did say they hate Johnny cage. I think they just want the girl Cassie to steal all his shit. I mean, they gave him the camera variation so that explains a lot right there

Wait, they actually admitted they hate him?

 

[Mikemetroid]

Take Show Stopper and throw it in the fucking TRASH

This hasn't aged well!

LOL SHOW STOPPER IS GODLIEK Y'ALL