Jade's Razor-Rang Loops (like D'Vorah's Ovi-Loops)

[Deleted member 5032]

Forgive me if this has been discussed already, but as a former D'Vorah main, I've found some similarities between D'Vorah's "Ovi Loops" and some of Jade's tools.

Jade's Razor-Rang leaves her +7 on hit, and her b3 is an 11-frame mid. This means Jade can cancel b343 into Razor-Rang on hit to remain +7, allowing her to continue pressuring with b3 (an 11-frame mid, made 4-frames thanks to the 7 frames of advantage from bf1). This also does significantly more damage than D'Vorah's 9% Ovi Loops. A single b343~bf1 is almost 14%.

The downside, of course, is that the Razor-Rang hit high, so a savvy opponent can block the string, neutral crouch, and punish. Luckily, after extensive testing, it seems that a d2 will not trigger a KB when punishing the Razor-Rang. So at worst you will eat a poke or a 14% d2, depending on your opponent. If your opponent is punishing like this, you can just use the b3434 string to deal 7% or remain +5, assuming they don't flawless block the gap, which they won't if they're looking out for the Razor-Rang. Or you can cancel into bf2, though you'll be -13 if they block it.

Whenever you land a b343~bf1, regular or amp, the opponent has to respect your follow-up. This opens the door to throws, 124, f34, and anything else you want.

So, although Razor-Rang isn't a mid like D'Vorah's Katipo Rush, Jade has way more options for how to keep the opponent guessing, and is able to easily confirm in razor-rang on hit or b3434 on block. If you block D'Vorah's regular or amp Katipo Rush, her turn is over, but Jade is capable of stealing turn after turn after turn thanks to her staggers and plus frames.

TLDR: Jade can hit-confirm b343 into bf1 to remain +7, allowing her to do a short dash and b343 again. Based on testing so far, the opponent has to respect the b343 followup unless they flawless-block. If they block the b343, Jade can can amplify the bf1 to remain +7 and continue the loop. The opponent must respect it, or must risk neutral crouching after the b343 to poke or d2, though Jade has options to punish an opponent for attempting this.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

One funny bonus to this loop is that the AI doesn't seem to know how to deal with it, so you can get endless flawless victories...

 

[Espio]

It's a shame people throw out, "this is already known" so much that people have to put disclaimers for these pesky folks lol. You just picked her up and already have a nice little meta in the works. I'm glad you're thinking about her and the game as a set of variables and scenarios that you throw your opponent's way.

Kitana Prime does this alot, the standing reset for 18% into more guessing is the real deal, it's like my main punish now because of how good it is. Wake ups negated and mix is fantastic.

Look forward to your journey.

 

[Snibbor]

Good stuff. However, after the Amp bf1, the opponent can full combo punish instead of just poking or doing a d2 because there’s small recovery window after Jade throws her second projectile where, if ducked, the opponent can stand up and jab punish if timed very well. Kinda sucks that the first razorrang doesn’t jail into the second one because even if you manage to get someone to hold the first one they can still duck the second and punish.

 

[Afumba]

Good stuff. However, after the Amp bf1, the opponent can full combo punish instead of just poking or doing a d2 because there’s small recovery window after Jade throws her second projectile where, if ducked, the opponent can stand up and jab punish if timed very well. Kinda sucks that the first razorrang doesn’t jail into the second one because even if you manage to get someone to hold the first one they can still duck the second and punish.

Yea, that it doesnt jail is sad indeed. Using AMP rang on block gets me punished almost everytime even though i almost never do it.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I'll continue to test, but in that case you can either just let the b343 end and be safe at -7, finish the b3434 string to be +5, with the risk of a flawless block, or cancel the b343 string in bf2, though you'll be -13. You never actually need to use amp rang since regular keeps you +7 and it's so easy to confirm into. If regular hits, even mid-screen, your 11-frame mid becomes 4 frames. The AI even tried to FB punish during the gap but my b343 beat out their armor.

 

[Madog32]

I'll continue to test, but in that case you can either just let the b343 end and be safe at -7, finish the b3434 string to be +5, with the risk of a flawless block, or cancel the b343 string in bf2, though you'll be -13. You never actually need to use amp rang since regular keeps you +7 and it's so easy to confirm into. If regular hits, even mid-screen, your 11-frame mid becomes 4 frames. The AI even tried to FB punish during the gap but my b343 beat out their armor.

Don't forget you could cancel into parry as well. Kinda dangerous to cancel into bf2 when so many characters can full combo punish it.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

The fact that Jacqui can jail her BS superman punch from mids and Jade cant jail her razor rang is utter arbitrary BS.
I have to be very smart about using this stagger, even then I feel good players often react to the razor rang and blow it up.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Don't forget you could cancel into parry as well. Kinda dangerous to cancel into bf2 when so many characters can full combo punish it.

That window is probably so tight. I've heard the voice, seen the animation, and still gotten punished for a combo so many times I don't trust the move anymore.

 

[Madog32]

That window is probably so tight. I've heard the voice, seen the animation, and still gotten punished for a combo so many times I don't trust the move anymore.

Haha, fair enough. I've been there!

Tho if you've been staggering your string, your opponent is likely scouting for either the Rangs, or the 4 of B3434. Just a minor hesitation on their part after B343 should allow for a DB4.

But honestly, B343 is so hit-confirmable, you should be able to just stop there and be (mostly) safe at -7 on block. If you're in the market for a safe jailable special, you're using the wrong character

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Haha, fair enough. I've been there!

Tho if you've been staggering your string, your opponent is likely scouting for either the Rangs, or the 4 of B3434. Just a minor hesitation on their part after B343 should allow for a DB4.

But honestly, B343 is so hit-confirmable, you should be able to just stop there and be (mostly) safe at -7 on block. If you're in the market for a safe jailable special, you're using the wrong character

Jaded is clearly meant to be rush-down, making her only legit pressure string so easily readable is a huge disservice. And arbitrary considering other jails in this game. That's just my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

Jaded is clearly meant to be rush-down

Eh? I'll have to disagree on that point. I think she is an excellent keep-away and space-control character. When you turtle up with Jade, especially with a life-lead, it can be very difficult for most characters to ever get into their necessary range. b343 is an excellent stagger string that works well with a rushdown style, but I'd say her overall design is almost the polar opposite of a rushdown character. At least, in her zoning variation.

 

[TakeAChance]

If you are in the corner, use B343 regular rang. You will save your meter. Midscreen, use EX Rang.

If you want to really annoy people, use Jaded and start using B3 polevault, B343 Ex Rang, B343 Stagger, B343 polevault, B3434

They all cover each other quite nicely.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

You can use regular rang mid-screen, you just have to do a tiny dash-cancel. Probably makes b3 a 7 frame mid instead if 4-frame, but still has to be respected. It also makes it more difficult for the opponent to react to dash-throw, since now all your follow-ups include the dash.

 

[Madog32]

Jaded is clearly meant to be rush-down, making her only legit pressure string so easily readable is a huge disservice. And arbitrary considering other jails in this game. That's just my opinion.

As fun as a rushdown Jade would be, I don't think that's what she's designed to do. She's great at space control, and whiff punishing (if you can call 18-20% a punish...) but she can't really rely on pressure to win a match.

I've been using Jaded variation since the beginning. Without the air glaive or ground spark, she really has no full screen presence. She can't chip, she can't force jump ins. She can't capitalize on anti-airing upward rang. She's left to really just control space and punish her opponent for mis-spacing their attacks. But she does this quite well.

To play Jade as a rushdown character is to have a death wish. She WILL get blocked eventually. And then her turn will be over. She can't really steal turns back. She doesn't have cancels for pressure. She has B3434 for plus frames and 21, 212, F34 for safety. But up close, that's about it. To excel with this character, you should be hit confirming B2 and B343. To me, that's about the extent of her close-up game. The rest is mastering her range, punishing poorly spaced attacks, and knowing when to use pole vault. B343~vault is a good +20% punish. B2~vault at slightly farther range. But if you're not hit confirming these strings, you'll get your vaults blown up by anyones D2 at minimum, Standing Normal~Full combo for many.

TLDR: Patience, spacing, and hit-confirming are key for success with Jaded. Rushdown at your own peril.

 

[Madog32]

If you want to really annoy people, use Jaded and start using B3 polevault, B343 polevault

Just to clarify - on block these will get blown up by D2s, and likely get low profiled by D1/D3. But on hit, go for it!

 

[TakeAChance]

Just to clarify - on block these will get blown up by D2s, and likely get low profiled by D1/D3. But on hit, go for it!

Yes they can. Sort of. B343 stagger doesn't not get blown up by uppercut. Its all a mind game. I'll usually show it to them. If they start trying to blow it up, they get staggered all day.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

I got a little drunk on wine last night and was messing around in training. Unless I’m mistaken, it seems that you can buffer a backdash near the end of a blockstring. I can't test right now, but I couldn't tell if cancel advantage affected it or if it just let the back-dash come out on the first available frame. But either way, Jade actually has a pretty good back-dash in this game. I want to experiment with canceling her b3 and b343 staggers into back-dash, which should allow for an easy whiff-punish if the opponent is trying to poke or throw after the stagger. If anyone wants to test, please let us know what you find.

 

[TakeAChance]

I got a little drunk on wine last night and was messing around in training. Unless I’m mistaken, it seems that you can buffer a backdash near the end of a blockstring. I can't test right now, but I couldn't tell if cancel advantage affected it or if it just let the back-dash come out on the first available frame. But either way, Jade actually has a pretty good back-dash in this game. I want to experiment with canceling her b3 and b343 staggers into back-dash, which should allow for an easy whiff-punish if the opponent is trying to poke or throw after the stagger. If anyone wants to test, please let us know what you find.

Against most people you can literally just walk back. Most of the time they are waiting to see how you end the damn thing that they let you literally get another b3 out or you just back up and catch them poking.

Know what beats the poke? Letting the 4 fly.

 

[Madog32]

Yes they can. Sort of. B343 stagger doesn't not get blown up by uppercut. Its all a mind game. I'll usually show it to them. If they start trying to blow it up, they get staggered all day.

Totally. I was only calling out the vault cancels

 

[GLoRToR]

This gets blown up every time by people who know what they are doing.
Waz and KP attempted this repeatedly at CB and got busted up for it.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

You can confirm into the rang on hit or end with b343 or b3434 on block. Nothing to get blown up for if you aren’t throwing out rangs on block.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

You'll be hearing from my attorney.

 

[Phr4nk]

You can confirm into the rang on hit or end with b343 or b3434 on block. Nothing to get blown up for if you aren’t throwing out rangs on block.

That last 4 in b3434 is pretty dangerous. A guy I regularly run sets with flawless blocks it into u2 launch all the time. It can work but try it too often and you’re gonna get popped.

 

[Deleted member 5032]

That last 4 in b3434 is pretty dangerous. A guy I regularly run sets with flawless blocks it into u2 launch all the time. It can work but try it too often and you’re gonna get popped.

Right, it’s not an instant-win button, same as D’Vorah’s Ovi Loops. All I’m saying is on hit you can loop indefinitely until the opponent finally blocks, and on block you have a few different options, way more than D’Vorah. If the opponent is waiting to flawless the final hit, they’ll get blown up if you end with b343 and stagger into d1, another b3, or even a throw.