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Is it me or can Jax compete now?

Felix

Noob
He's had buffs in both patches. Armour on punch and he has ground pound cancel.
His f4, 1, 3 >> d1 is really good
His 1,2, Gotcha is Extremelly good
Great wakeup
Good corner pressure

Seems to me that he's up there with Reptile and Sub-zero now.

Anyone agree?
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
Once people learn the Jax matchup, I don't think anybody will be putting him that high up on a tier list.

He's free to pokes on wakeup, and once you've conditioned the Jax player to expect a poke on his wakeup, he can be crossed up again. His ground pound cancel isn't safe. Sub-Zero alone can always punish with a slide so anybody with a fast advancing special should be able to punish him. Raiden's superman, Reptile's dash? etc. He has fast lows but they're not true launchers to my knowledge. His corner pressure is really good but you should have meter against Jax by the time he gets you anywhere near the corner. Little need to breaker midscreen in most situations.

He can compete just like 99% of the cast but the top tier characters like Reptile just have more to really work with than Jax.
 

Felix

Noob
Good say, kinda won me over on that one but I will say that ground pound cancel is to play mind games and bait, you have to be smart to use Jax so don't expect to just punish GPC with slides every time. Ground pound isn't a move thats thrown out constantly, I think it's similar to Sub's iceball or Cyrax's net.

Jax needs another buff, on a special move, one that he can use on wakeup because it would help him stop getting wrecked by pokes and pokes on wakeup. It would have to be overhead smash, make it longer range and faster? Then Jax wouldn't get as fucked by mileena and other good d3/d4/d1 characters and would overall be able to compete.
His grab could do with a buff in my opinion.. only does +1% extra damage than the average grab and since his speciality is meant to be grabs I think 15% wouldn't be over the top.
 
Well, if NRS ever hits that "button" they added and let you break throws while blocking, Jax's throw will be great because of the direction switching. It already does do 15%, too, but it's really hard to pull off... and yeah, the slide can't always punish gp cancels; Jax can essentially jump cancel his gp or cancel into another move.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
Well, if NRS ever hits that "button" they added and let you break throws while blocking, Jax's throw will be great because of the direction switching. It already does do 15%, too, but it's really hard to pull off... and yeah, the slide can't always punish gp cancels; Jax can essentially jump cancel his gp or cancel into another move.
I am not saying it's worthless, I am just saying you'll eat a lot of fast specials (a lot of them safe, too), for trying the gp cancel. Take for instance the matchup with Sub-Zero, since it's the one I somewhat know. If you start cancelling your gp with jump, Sub can just use ex freeze when he has meter. He's not going to lose no matter what you cancel into, so you're going to stop jumping against Sub-Zero (close range and far) eventually if you value your life bar. What can you cancel into that's going to force me into an error? There doesn't seem to be much unless there's something I am missing? If I am right, none of the guessing games after a gp cancel are really in Jax's favour so he's just putting himself in a bad situation by attempting it. That's why I don't feel Jax's baits are that strong off a gp cancel. I see plenty of people falling for ex dash punches and gp cancels because they don't know the matchup but once they know what they're doing, Jax seems limited to up close mix up pressure which cannot be sustained like a Johnny Cage frame trap or Kung Lao/Scorpion vortex.

Characters like Mileena, Sub-Zero, Smoke, Sonya (although she probably doesn't need it), can all approach Jax with d4 which is really annoying for Jax since his best stuff is duckable.

Anyway, I don't mean to bash Jax; I know 12gauge loves him, lol, I am just pointing out why I think he's not a top tier character. I think he's lower-mid or upper-low if that makes sense.
 
If you start cancelling your gp with jump, Sub can just use ex freeze when he has meter. He's not going to lose no matter what you cancel into, so you're going to stop jumping against Sub-Zero (close range and far) eventually if you value your life bar. What can you cancel into that's going to force me into an error? There doesn't seem to be much unless there's something I am missing? If I am right, none of the guessing games after a gp cancel are really in Jax's favour so he's just putting himself in a bad situation by attempting it. That's why I don't feel Jax's baits are that strong off a gp cancel.
EX Dash Punch can beat Ice Beam, even if the EX Dash Punch itself doesn't connect (that would probably be better, actually). Not saying its easy or in Jax's favor in that case, but it's not that he has no option in that situation. Ice Beam is probably one the harder moves for him to deal with if doing a gp, though, but it's much easier to deal with if the gp is timed to hit on Sub-Zero's wake-up, for example. I don't think there's anything that's completely safe against a Jax doing a gp cancel.

I'm not really getting the "force me into an error" part; you can't really force someone to mess up. There has to be another option for something to be considered an error, so maybe I'm just interpreting that incorrectly. As for whether or not the guessing game is in Jax's favor... it's situational, depending on the characters, players, position, meter, etc. I wouldn't say he's always at a disadvantage doing gp's and gp cancels, but it is often pretty high-risk, though he does have potential for relatively high reward.
 

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
Jax can rape you know. But like BigDaddy said when people learn how to fight it will get harder. No more free ex dash punches. They will be broken because your foe knows Jax's midscreen combos are off of ground pound and AAs. So don't go pissing away meter on ex dash punch so fast guys. We should try to paly around xray more. In my opinion, it's one of the best xrays in the game.