Is it good to have pay to win DLC ?

[supahotbean]

1.) this is more than likely going to end up as a rant
2.) I am mainly talking about fighting games and no others. so fps and every other type of game is excluded

I just wanted to address something and wondered if the pay to win DLC style was good or bad for fighters. On one hand, it's like no, why should you be able to get a top 5 character for spending 19.99, and on the other, it's like well I spent 19.99 for this character, of course, I want them to be great.

I want to get your opinions because recently many nrs DLC characters have been absolute shit as in balance, and overall finishedness. I'm pretty sure you can deduce which tree I'm trying to bark up, the ultimate dlc pack since most of those charters were extremely unfinished and are some of the worst characters in mk11 atm.
(and it seems nrs isn't going to fix them anytime soon .....or ever)

So ill restate my question should fighters follow a pay to win type slogan (and maybe balance them out in the later months, only maybe), or should the power level just be random and we end up with another mk ultimate fighter pack

 

[Zviko]

Of course it's not good to have pay to win DLC so I'm glad it hasn't happened yet.

 

[craftycheese]

The answer is no, pay to win characters should not be in a competitive fighting game. In a mobile game, like Mortal Kombat Mobile or Marvel Strike Force, sure that's fine.

My question to you is, because I see this a lot and I don't know how people know or what proof they have of this, but how do you know these characters are unfinished?

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

I thought this would be about Tekken's Leroy, or Street Fighter's Rose. Only amazingly powerful DLC for MK11 has been Joker. So no, there shouldn't be pay to win characters, but NRS has actually avoided that temptation. And only Mileena feels unfinished.

We just circle back to the core issue, which is that it wouldn't take many tweaks to improve many of the current low tiers (and tone down the lololol stuff of the Cetrions in the game) to have a great balance. But NRS clearly cannot be bothered with any of that finishing work, when they've already sold the stuff to you.

 

[Marlow]

I don't think DLC characters in fighting games are the same as pay to win.

The goal with balancing DLC characters should be the same as any other character. Try and make them fun and imaginative, while not being so broke that they get banned or so terrible that they're unplayable.

 

[supahotbean]

I don't think DLC characters in fighting games are the same as pay to win.

The goal with balancing DLC characters should be the same as any other character. Try and make them fun and imaginative, while not being so broke that they get banned or so terrible that they're unplayable.

i can vibe with that answer because I wouldn't willingly pay for trash characters. it makes no sense, to me, to play a character which is worse than a base character

 

[supahotbean]

The answer is no, pay to win characters should not be in a competitive fighting game. In a mobile game, like Mortal Kombat Mobile or Marvel Strike Force, sure that's fine.

My question to you is, because I see this a lot and I don't know how people know or what proof they have of this, but how do you know these characters are unfinished?

because they fixed the issue after some time lol (rains back 2 bug, mileena and rambos jump kick into command grab)

 

[John Grizzly]

Let me precede this by saying Tekken is my favorite fighting game and I love Tekken 7 to death. Having said that, I feel like Namco is a major repeat offender when it comes to the topic at hand. My only issue with it is that, in Leroy's case, they CLEARLY knew how incredibly broken and braindead he was and ALREADY had nerfs ready to go before he was even released. That's not ok. It's sort of fucked to sell someone this sort of super, god character while also fully intending to completely change the character weeks/months down the road. The same happened with Fahkumram. Should they have gotten nerfed? Absolutely. But don't release characters that way when you know how broken they are. Those two characters made me not even want to play online during season 3.

In Namco's defense, Lidia was absolutely a step in the right direction and I hope she returns for Tekken 8. She's an amazing character with actual weaknesses who clearly has a defined identity of her own. She's not just the best at every aspect of the game like Leroy was.

 

[Arqwart]

Fundamentally? No, a fighting game should never have pay-to-win DLC.

Realistically? It's rather difficult to keep this from happening in every instance of a new character's release. While the developers have QA, they aren't testing things to the same extent we can as players so some things are likely to slip through the cracks (see: Raiden's corner infinite that one patch). There's also varying player skill to keep in mind. I strongly doubt there's anyone at NRS at the level of someone like TekkenMaster, Dragon, or SonicFox playtesting new characters or patches to catch insane things, let alone TWO people at that skill level to truly put things to the test in a real matchup. Toss in the complications of revisions, milestone (and eventual release) due dates, QC reviews, bug checking, and whatever other behind the scenes design tasks that occur and you've got a complicated process that's more about the selling of a product than anything else.

Are there some "braindead, never should have been released this way" characters that make it out of development into the live game? Unfortunately, yeah. Players suffer the Kenshis, Tanyas, Aliens, etc. Does it mean NRS is aiming to release pay-to-win DLC? I strongly doubt that. Remember: "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" (or in these cases, oversights / mistakes).

 

[Wrenchfarm]

Absolutely not a good thing to have a pay 2 win character. How is that even a question? Nobody wants to play a game where they feel held hostage to purchasing a character to compete.

Now time for me to make some enemies. I think MK11 has been pretty good about. Most of the DLC characters feel powerful without being overwhelming (Nightwolf, Shang, Rambo, etc), some feel a little weak (Robocop, Shao Khan). Joker is the only one that stands out and even he's just very very good not GOD TEIR and invalidating half the cast.

All of which is surprising because historically NRS is one of the WORST offenders of this. Look at Rain, Freddy and Kenshi in MK9. See pre-patch Tanya and Alien in MKX (even Predator and Leatherface are very high tier), ridiculous characters! Or Manhunter, Batgirl, and Zod in Injustice, pay to have characters that have twice as many tools and options as base characters, ugh.

All of those games had base roster characters who were in the top 5, but it's telling how many DLC characters populate the tops of the tier charts. I'm very happy MK11 seems like a step away from those days. I want DLC characters that offer interesting ways to play without feeling like I paid to throw some easy Ws up on the board.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

i can vibe with that answer because I wouldn't willingly pay for trash characters. it makes no sense, to me, to play a character which is worse than a base character

Being weak really doesn't mean too much when it comes to dlc popularity. Armor King in Tekken 7 is the 6th most used character in the game despite being an average character who is greatly outclassed by similar playstyles. He's just cool as fuck, so people use him despite his flaws.

 

[DixieFlatline78]

Having very strong DLC characters is fine as long as there are very strong base roster characters. Three of the generally accepted top four in MK11 are base roster, and I can tell you that the fourth one has a lot of players who cant win online.

But Leroy is a definite example of a pay-to-win character.

 

[supahotbean]

Being weak really doesn't mean too much when it comes to dlc popularity. Armor King in Tekken 7 is the 6th most used character in the game despite being an average character who is greatly outclassed by similar playstyles. He's just cool as fuck, so people use him despite his flaws.

same could be said for rain too

 

[supahotbean]

Absolutely not a good thing to have a pay 2 win character. How is that even a question? Nobody wants to play a game where they feel held hostage to purchasing a character to compete.

Now time for me to make some enemies. I think MK11 has been pretty good about. Most of the DLC characters feel powerful without being overwhelming (Nightwolf, Shang, Rambo, etc), some feel a little weak (Robocop, Shao Khan). Joker is the only one that stands out and even he's just very very good not GOD TEIR and invalidating half the cast.

All of which is surprising because historically NRS is one of the WORST offenders of this. Look at Rain, Freddy and Kenshi in MK9. See pre-patch Tanya and Alien in MKX (even Predator and Leatherface are very high tier), ridiculous characters! Or Manhunter, Batgirl, and Zod in Injustice, pay to have characters that have twice as many tools and options as base characters, ugh.

All of those games had base roster characters who were in the top 5, but it's telling how many DLC characters populate the tops of the tier charts. I'm very happy MK11 seems like a step away from those days. I want DLC characters that offer interesting ways to play without feeling like I paid to throw some easy Ws up on the board.

tbh I feel like if I'm paying for x character they should be at least decent. I wish you could see frame data before purchasing a character lol. i wouldn't have willingly purchased ultimate if i knew three of the characters were going to be pretty bad


i know this is pretty irrelevant, but i kinda see dlc as the same way you would see equipment for sports. if you don't come equipt, you're not gonna perform at probably the same lvl as everyone else or at your own personal best

 

[Kiss the Missile]

If it means that much you could just wait to see their frames. Don't even have to wait long. 20 minutes after the characters go live their frame data is posted somewhere on the forum

 

[Trustful_Whale]

What difference does it make whether you're paying for a good character when you paid for all of them anyway?

 

[GLoRToR]

Of course not.
Why would it be good to have pay to win anything?
This is a very unreasonable question.

 

[Marinjuana]

I watch Rain and Mileena in tournaments

 

[DeftMonk]

MK11 dlc is kinda weird in one aspect. In other mordern day games, the base roster is pretty tame and then the developers kinda see how the meta goes and are willing to experiment more with character kits and give really refreshing design to new dlc. This makes the dlc feel more interesting and "complete". You can see this in dbfz,sfv,battle for the grid etc... but in mk11 a lot of the dlc feels more incomplete than the base roster. Outside of joker and fujin, most of the dlc is really tame design and just feels lacking imo.

 

[Szkarad]

You CAN argue that what we currently have in MK11 is to some extent pay to win, because you can't lab against a kharacter if you didn't buy them, so even if you check frame data online, but you won't really learn matchup dependant stuff and flawless block timings

 

[DeftMonk]

You CAN argue that what we currently have in MK11 is to some extent pay to win, because you can't lab against a kharacter if you didn't buy them, so even if you check frame data online, but you won't really learn matchup dependant stuff and flawless block timings

That is not pay to win at all. Come on now bro.

 

[Marinjuana]

MK11 dlc is kinda weird in one aspect. In other mordern day games, the base roster is pretty tame and then the developers kinda see how the meta goes and are willing to experiment more with character kits and give really refreshing design to new dlc. This makes the dlc feel more interesting and "complete". You can see this in dbfz,sfv,battle for the grid etc... but in mk11 a lot of the dlc feels more incomplete than the base roster. Outside of joker and fujin, most of the dlc is really tame design and just feels lacking imo.

Shang Tsung, Joker, Fujin, Sindel and Sheeva are some of the most unique characters in the game, wish more characters on base roster had stuff like they do. I'd argue that Rain and Terminator bring something different too. I definitely feel like the guest characters lack polish though.

 

[Onryoki]

I think DLC characters are overall stronger and better because NRS or any company for that sake, usually have more time to work on that character compared to when they’re releasing a base game with 20+ characters. Companies often don’t have as much time to put into a single character while working on the base game it seems.

Personally I don’t think there’s a “pay to win” system in modern day fighters. Yes, we have DLC characters like Leroy that are strong and somewhat broken, but to me that doesn’t equal to pay to win. Especially when you have base roster characters in Tekken (and most fighters) that are up there with him.

I also don’t see how DLC characters being overall a bit stronger than the base roster is that much of an issue. I saw someone here complaining about not knowing the matchups if they don’t buy the characters, which was kinda dumb. Of course you won’t know how to deal with a character if you’ve never used them or played against them.

Anyway, “pay to win” doesn’t really exist in most fighters. Especially when there’s also patches, etc. buffing en nerfing characters.

 

[Szkarad]

That is not pay to win at all. Come on now bro.

I think it is a little bit. it would be fair if you were able to play practice with khars you don't own

 

[DeftMonk]

I think it is a little bit. it would be fair if you were able to play practice with khars you don't own

This isnt tekken characters dont have 180 moves. After u play a set vs the character u pretty much know wtf is going on. Pay to win is like leroy in tekken. Regardless of what u will read above that fool was broke as fuck. He had the best version of all the moves in the game. Fastest counter hit launcher, longest range counter hit launcher, best parry in game, Great tracking moves, hell sweep, insanely high combo damage. Fool was designed so damn good they already had nerfs ready for him before he was released (not a joke). That is pay to win.