in depth Jax Breakdown all 3 variation, changes wish list

[deathstroke187]

Disclaimer : I was very tired when i made this video work is killing me. This video is to help Jax players and also to help people having issue in the Jax mu and to show to the devs the weakness Jax have and where he is lacking. I feel like Jax rekt at lower level but at high level and pro level his just gimmicks and high risk low reward character. You really need to work hard and keep guessing right to have that snowball effect.

Again this is all my opinion , feel free to comment ill respond only to people replying with intelligent feedbacks.
i know i didnt mention stuff like his setups and how he can loop his throws. I didnt wanted to do an hour long video. I tried to cover as much possible.
I still main him and shang i still think Jax is fun cause i like working hard lol. i just dont think his that good and you should better play Kotal if you want to compete with a good grappler. Kotal does everything Jax does but better.

So Jax

Pros

Good anti airs
Throw loops
Top 3 best FB
Unbreakable KBs (but who care since jax never make you break away in hunker down)
D3 low profile
Very good corner pressure
Very good movement
1,2 auto shimmy
Get up 3 is great
Once full heated up or with FB ready he can kill you in 2-3 good reads

Cons

Low dmg
Very high risk low reward everything he does he risk his life
He lives and dies by his gimmicks
Gets zoned out easily
He loses to mostly all top tier characters badly
Quad grab kb too hard for no reasons
Only 1 real variation
Get up 2 sucks
1,2 first hit can be crouch blocked
Every single Special moves he does in hunker down is full combo punishable

*What i would change

-Revert Quad grab KB insane timing requirement or fix the visual cue
-Make F4 great again +3
-Remove the FB window on f2 1+3
-Give jax two real other variation all his variation are rushdowns...
-Make 1,2 +2 or make 1 hitting crouching opponents like liu,cetrion,johnny

Updated

Jax MU

Wins
Shao kahn
Fujin
Scorpion
Dvorah
Skarlet

Even
Kotal
Raiden
NightWolf
Kitana
Kabal
Lao
Terminator
Kollector
Joker

Lose
Cetrion
Shang
Geras
Jade
Johnny
Cassie
Liu
Spawn
Erron
Sindel
Baraka
Subzero (would had been even but var 3 absolutely shit on jax)
Frost (var 3)
Noob saibot (SD var)
Sonya
Kano (dirtbag)
Jacqui

 

[TyCarter35]

I feel like u def should've addressed dash cancelling right after landing f2 d4 or even on oki in general cuz u can make f2 reach after that, but the downside to that is that it's much harder to properly cover options like long delayed wakeup or getup roll and wakeup buttons. (I know u probably didn't want to take too long but still) On that note, one option ppl def find "OP" abt Jax is f2 whiff covering almost all options even tho ppl don't short delay wakeup enough (which beats the f2 whiff on oki where u can f33 to beat up wake up buttons if long delayed wakeup is done and be safe against roll)

 

[deathstroke187]

I feel like u def should've addressed dash cancelling right after landing f2 d4 or even on oki in general cuz u can make f2 reach after that, but the downside to that is that it's much harder to properly cover options like long delayed wakeup or getup roll and wakeup buttons. (I know u probably didn't want to take too long but still) On that note, one option ppl def find "OP" abt Jax is f2 whiff covering almost all options even tho ppl don't short delay wakeup enough (which beats the f2 whiff on oki where u can f33 to beat up wake up buttons if long delayed wakeup is done and be safe against roll)

you are right , i could had said many other things like you always have defense meeter againts jax since he almost never force you to breakaway. But like ive said i didnt wanted to make an hour long video and also i wasnt sure people would be really interested to what i have to say since im a nobody

 

[thlityoursloat]

His getup 3 sucks. It's only great for catching walk backs. Otherwise short hop into counter hit KB for days. Other getup 3s like Lao's and Sindel's hit in every single direction.
I say keep the gap in 1+3, otherwise you wouldn't have the bf2 meta to catch flawless blockers, but instead make it to do more damage like 15% by itself. It'd even out risk reward and give him better punishes.
Also good job addressing the fact that he gets fucking destroyed by all the top tiers. They either do what he does but waaay better (geras, liu) or outzone or outfootsie the shit out of him (sonya, johnny).

 

[deathstroke187]

His getup 3 sucks. It's only great for catching walk backs. Otherwise short hop into counter hit KB for days. Other getup 3s like Lao's and Sindel's hit in every single direction.
I say keep the gap in 1+3, otherwise you wouldn't have the bf2 meta to catch flawless blockers, but instead make it to do more damage like 15% by itself. It'd even out risk reward and give him better punishes.
Also good job addressing the fact that he gets fucking destroyed by all the top tiers. They either do what he does but waaay better (geras, liu) or outzone or outfootsie the shit out of him (sonya, johnny).

Thanks for the comments

saying to not removing 1+3 fb gap for the bf2 meta to catch flawless blocker is a gimmick and both option are unsafe and every character who have a 6f can just block both option and punish both. Again the risk reward for bf2 is way too high if you read right hes full screen if you guess wrong you eat shit

 

[thlityoursloat]

Thanks for the comments

saying to not removing 1+3 fb gap for the bf2 meta to catch flawless blocker is a gimmick and both option are unsafe and every character who have a 6f can just block both option and punish both. Again the risk reward for bf2 is way too high if you read right hes full screen if you guess wrong you eat shit

I still just want better damage. :/
Jax's biggest problem is that his reads amount to shit, you have to work twice as hard as anyone else. You'd never yolo slide against Geras because if you do say goodbye to 40%, but against Jax? lol 15% so what.

 

[deathstroke187]

I still just want better damage. :/
Jax's biggest problem is that his reads amount to shit, you have to work twice as hard as anyone else. You'd never yolo slide against Geras because if you do say goodbye to 40%, but against Jax? lol 15% so what.

Yeah jax dmg is all about his KBs at least its what the game designers that made Jax wanted when they made him.

Jax good KBs

f2 1+3
Forward Throw
6 hit combo into bf 3,4

Jax bad KBs

Full charged b2 (you wont hit anyone that knows the mu)
Quad Grab KB (way too strict timing and resource consuming)

so he has potential of maybe 4 good kb a match and most of his dmg comes from that but the issue is that you need full heat for half that. You are always a step behind you hit someone and you are like "if i hit you again you east shit AKA 330 dmg". Honestly im fine with his dmg its just the risk is too high he doesnt have real safety or real staggers midscreen or pressure at all besides what ive said in the video.

Real talk though im sure all those Jax nerfs are due to low level players getting smacked by Jax players and gimmicks thinking the character is OP and broken but they didnt labbed him once.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Yeah jax dmg is all about his KBs at least its what the game designers that made Jax wanted when they made him.

Jax good KBs

f2 1+3
Forward Throw
6 hit combo into bf 3,4

Jax bad KBs

Full charged b2 (you wont hit anyone that knows the mu)
Quad Grab KB (way too strict timing and resource consuming)

so he has potential of maybe 4 good kb a match and most of his dmg comes from that but the issue is that you need full heat for half that. You are always a step behind you hit someone and you are like "if i hit you again you east shit AKA 330 dmg". Honestly im fine with his dmg its just the risk is too high he doesnt have real safety or real staggers midscreen or pressure at all besides what ive said in the video.

Real talk though im sure all those Jax nerfs are due to low level players getting smacked by Jax players and gimmicks thinking the character is OP and broken but they didnt labbed him once.

Go on the rage thread, every page has someone moaning about Jax staggers. They have no idea how staggers and blockstun work so they think that every blocked f33 is their turn GUARANTEED even though it's only -4 with low block stun. They'll never understand that they CAN'T WAIT 20F TO REACT, THEN STILL HAVE THEIR TURN.
It's soooo funny because Jacqui does everything Jax does while completely destroying the neutral game, and also having launchers into over 30%.

 

[deathstroke187]

Go on the rage thread, every page has someone moaning about Jax staggers. They have no idea how staggers and blockstun work so they think that every blocked f33 is their turn GUARANTEED even though it's only -4 with low block stun. They'll never understand that they CAN'T WAIT 20F TO REACT, THEN STILL HAVE THEIR TURN.
It's soooo funny because Jacqui does everything Jax does while completely destroying the neutral game, and also having launchers into over 30%.

Amen

 

[Bruno-NeoSpace]

Honestly the only 2 buffs I want to see in Jax is a 7 frames S1 and a solid reversal. That's all he really needs.

Edit: yeah he really needs that pre patch timing on the CMD grab KB and f4 being at least +2 would be nice.

 

[freerf245]

Jax bad KBs

Full charged b2 (you wont hit anyone that knows the mu)
Quad Grab KB (way too strict timing and resource consuming)

so he has potential of maybe 4 good kb a match and most of his dmg comes from that but the issue is that you need full heat for half that. You are always a step behind you hit someone and you are like "if i hit you again you east shit AKA 330 dmg". Honestly im fine with his dmg its just the risk is too high he doesnt have real safety or real staggers midscreen or pressure at all besides what ive said in the video.

Real talk though im sure all those Jax nerfs are due to low level players getting smacked by Jax players and gimmicks thinking the character is OP and broken but they didnt labbed him once.

I hit these KB all the time. They are not bad. Quad grab is harder now but with practice i still hit it 80% of the time. B2 kb can be used to punish certain wake ups and off jump in attacks.

Hunker down has one of the best collection of Krushing Blows in the game, no question.

 

[deathstroke187]

I hit these KB all the time. They are not bad. Quad grab is harder now but with practice i still hit it 80% of the time. B2 kb can be used to punish certain wake ups and off jump in attacks.

Hunker down has one of the best collection of Krushing Blows in the game, no question.

do you compete or play high level players ?

 

[freerf245]

do you compete or play high level players ?

nah

 

[thlityoursloat]

do you compete or play high level players ?

LK can theoretically kill your lifebar TWICE with back to back KBs.

 

[EmperorP]

F4 +2 or +3 , grinnin baret needs justice , wake-up/flawless block up3 and up 2 needs to be at least 7 to 9 frame of start-up. In GB u can't use dack and wave on block without getting clipped , safety in an issue with this character and each time a patch lands they take 1 or two things away , so yea boys we inching our way in to have the mkx jax neff lets hop that day never come , playing as jax at a pro level in a total nightmare it doesn't matter wether GB or HD its just stressful as a jax main .

 

[MsMiharo]

LK can theoretically kill your lifebar TWICE with back to back KBs.

Ok. Now compare to other characters who don't have the best KBs in the game.

 

[deathstroke187]

F4 +2 or +3 , grinnin baret needs justice , wake-up/flawless block up3 and up 2 needs to be at least 7 to 9 frame of start-up. In GB u can't use dack and wave on block without getting clipped , safety in an issue with this character and each time a patch lands they take 1 or two things away , so yea boys we inching our way in to have the mkx jax neff lets hop that day never come , playing as jax at a pro level in a total nightmare it doesn't matter wether GB or HD its just stressful as a jax main .

This is my theory and i got jax main coming to my stream talking to me about it but here it goes.

NRS keep nerfing jax cause of the casual players ,that cant deal with jax pressure wich again is just gimmick we are forced to play this way if we want to open up someone but at low level it make the noobs very salty.

-F4 was +6 and f33 was a tick throw , got nerf day 1 patch
-Well after Sonic playing Jax for a while using jax cmd grab and pressure , Next patch got nerfed. his Quad grab timing got nerfed.
-Then After a set between two pros wich i wont named , X pro was complaining about Jax FB been too good. Next patch got nerfed. changed to a high. Wich im fine with

jax got nerfed almost every single patch. Because people complain and dont lab him just like Scorpion. I honestly dont think Scorpion is that good , not due because of the nerfs but because of his design.

I would be very currious of those stats on NRS side.

-how many jax main in elder god and god
-what is the 100% of success with quad grab kb in ranked.
-what is the avg dmg of jax on touch.

and here a stats . Jax main dont win shit in tournements and that is facts.

 

[EmperorP]

Thats true man its like nrs don't have eyes, is too honest.

 

[EmperorP]

Jax is too honest

 

[deathstroke187]

Either make Every character like jax , honest. or Go all the way and make every character like Liu,Terminator,Johnny,Cetrion MKX style cheap as fuck and broken

 

[MrArcher15]

I hit god the first 2 seasons of kl, haven’t since cuz I get tired of the grind but anywho yeah, I was the only Jax I saw. Maybe 2 or 4 others max

 

[thlityoursloat]

I hit god the first 2 seasons of kl, haven’t since cuz I get tired of the grind but anywho yeah, I was the only Jax I saw. Maybe 2 or 4 others max

Real talk.
Most people pick up Jax thinking he's broke, then drop him because he's not as easy as he looks.
Most Jax players SUCK ass because they've been babied by the overabudnance of characters with potato zoning and space control cough frost or potato instant counter zoning cough nightwolf so they can't adapt to the fact that Jax doesn't have a button where he sticks his daughter's dildo out so smack you across the screen with no hurtbox.
He's a hard character, you have to play honest ass footsies and overwhelm your opponent with your big bag of low reward high risk gimmicks.

 

[MrArcher15]

@deathstroke187 @thlityoursloat can y’all elaborate on how he’s high risk high reward? I genuinely don’t feel he is that. Sure you can play him like that but if you want to be safe you can definitely do that. Now yes his cmd grab can be seen as high risk high reward since it’s a high but with bf2 amp you can make damn near any string of his have no gap and be Unpunishable. My only gripe with him is even with his amazing kbs outside of that dude does no damage, and the variation where he can get damage off a bar, grinnin, is booty cheeks deluxe since you can poke him out of all his bf2 attempts. I low key play this game less and less but I am curious


Edit: also agree on basically all your changes by the way

 

[thlityoursloat]

@deathstroke187 @thlityoursloat can y’all elaborate on how he’s high risk high reward? I genuinely don’t feel he is that. Sure you can play him like that but if you want to be safe you can definitely do that. Now yes his cmd grab can be seen as high risk high reward since it’s a high but with bf2 amp you can make damn near any string of his have no gap and be Unpunishable. My only gripe with him is even with his amazing kbs outside of that dude does no damage, and the variation where he can get damage off a bar, grinnin, is booty cheeks deluxe since you can poke him out of all his bf2 attempts. I low key play this game less and less but I am curious

high risk LOW reward.
f2/f33 1+3 is -7 and has a FBable gap. At best you lose your turn for sure, you either get poked, jabbed or grabbed, if you're mashing d1 afterwards your opponent sucks, at worst you get full combo'd.
f2d4.. no explanation. Shit on hit, death on block. Also fuzzyable.
cmd grab is high risk low reward outside of the KB, and even that they nerfed. It's a stubby high grab that's over -40 on whiff. A regular grab is safer to throw out.
bf2 mb is also -7, you call it safe but try fighting a decent geras or scrub zero and you won't be calling it that. If you mash against anyone good all of your options will be beat, and you can't really fb because jabs will straight up jail you.
His + frames are whack, against anyone with a 6 framer they don't exist.
b2 is unsafe, shit on hit, stubby and slow.
All of his oh/low 50/50s are low risk and crap on reward. His basic strike/throw mixup isn't intimidating because his damage sucks.
If you play it safe you'll get nowhere, what do you do? Just f33s? You'll start getting poked to hell and back and being forced to eat better strike/throw mixups.

 

[MrArcher15]

high risk LOW reward.
f2/f33 1+3 is -7 and has a FBable gap. At best you lose your turn for sure, you either get poked, jabbed or grabbed, if you're mashing d1 afterwards your opponent sucks, at worst you get full combo'd.
f2d4.. no explanation. Shit on hit, death on block. Also fuzzyable.
cmd grab is high risk low reward outside of the KB, and even that they nerfed. It's a stubby high grab that's over -40 on whiff. A regular grab is safer to throw out.
bf2 mb is also -7, you call it safe but try fighting a decent geras or scrub zero and you won't be calling it that. If you mash against anyone good all of your options will be beat, and you can't really fb because jabs will straight up jail you.
His + frames are whack, against anyone with a 6 framer they don't exist.
b2 is unsafe, shit on hit, stubby and slow.
All of his oh/low 50/50s are low risk and crap on reward. His basic strike/throw mixup isn't intimidating because his damage sucks.
If you play it safe you'll get nowhere, what do you do? Just f33s? You'll start getting poked to hell and back and being forced to eat better strike/throw mixups.

Yooo lmfao you are absolutely.......right . I haven’t checked the frame date on his bf2 amp but if it is indeed -7 then yeah sub geras and erron can check it. I don’t think he’s a terrible character I do think he’s at least top 15, however the low damage always bothers me. It’s apparent when I play people and don’t have kbs ready to go it’s like they play yolo I eat 33%, I punish em they eat 15-18%. That def gets old

Edit: also fix his damn plus frames like you said!! I’m supposed to be a rushdown god but I’m +1 at best and Johnny can be plus a billion and zone me out, doesn’t make sense